Yes ik, it was in files when the other chinese heli missiles were in files too
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I hope they add proper RWR for the Z-10 in the upcoming patch, nothing seems to have changed on the dev server…
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I was looking at future helicopter trees to grind and it seems like the Z-10 is the least enticing tree to grind so far, compared to the other trees and compared to other 11.7 helicopters, it lacks:
- A properly modelled RWR (for some reason the RWR is listed as a “generic” RWR where it would normally have the RWR name, as mentioned it doesn’t even have IFF for a 2000s era helicopter)
- A competitive air to ground missile, only being comparable to the Hellfire which is a very mediocre missile to begin with (USSR gets Vikhr, Germany/France/Italy gets F&F, Israel soon for F&F)
- Radar (something USSR, USA, UK, Israel have for their top tier helis)
- IRCM (something USSR, USA, UK, Israel have for their top tier helis)
- HMD (something the Apache is apparently getting in the upcoming update)
What gives? It seems like it’s lacking at least one or two of those above features that make every top tier country’s helis special in some way. The only “thing” it has going for it are an ungodly amount of TY-90s but expect to get bullied by every other top tier helis because the damn things only have 2-3km range against other helis. At this point it’s a glorified airborne Type 81(C).
I think it should at least get the CM-502 F&F missiles or at least the radar variant to be deserving of its 11.7 BR (or just give it HMD and proper RWR). It’s just too lacking in everything at this time.
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AKD-10 is actually crazy good what? It can hit maneuvering targets at extreme range (killing helis with it is kinda hilarious) and kills tanks really well. The problem is it being a dog compared to super maneuverable helis before it.
RWR needs fixing true, there are reports
HMD i assume they are not just gonna give apache HMD and ignore tigers and other helis with those.
Radar we need another heli for that
I’m inclined to agree that AKD-10 is a good missile against tanks, but it is very slow and it gives off laser warning against enemies, causing you to be detected if the vehicle has a LWS. If a Tiger UHT or Ka-52/Mi-28NM gets the warning and looks at you, they will fire off their missiles and you have a much higher chance of losing because they can F&F missile and hide or beat your missile speed.
Most helicopters at top tier have LWS so they know if you are shooting AKD-10s at them. The only option is to shoot at 8-10km to hope to outrange them, but they usually get the memo and hide, causing you to reveal yourself and waste a missile.
I have a fairly high k/d on my Z-10 and I consider myself experienced but I dislike fighting other helis because if they are smart and spot you, they can usually win engagements due to said advantages (with the exception being against Apaches, since I find them to be relatively comparable to the Z-10 in 1vs1).
I think the point stands that the Z-10 is a bit of a neglected underdog: it lacks IRCM, and a radar, doesn’t have a properly modeled RWR, lacks HMD, has a slow but hard hitting ATGM (only gets x8), has a really slow firing gun, and the only pros I can think of is the lolpen ATGM stats and AA loadout. I think it is comparable to the Apache but lacks some of the proper modeling to have it stand shoulder to shoulder of other helis.
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From balance consideration, millimeter wave F&F ver AKD-10 is not a choice now.
But I don’t see any problem with CM-502 or AG-300M. 18km range is far and unbalanced, but only when it can do.
For this kind of missile, it’s ability of attack long range target is based on data link and man-in-the-loop control.
clearly, datalink and man-in-the-loop are ignored now, for a reasonable reason. So, same for Spike and same for CM-502/AG-300M. Why not? It can be easily balanced to a reasonable performance.
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I also think Z-10ME with the radar and IRCM would be an exciting addition that I’d be happy with, and CM-502 would just be the cherry on top (not sure how they’ll balance the incredibly long range though), but they should really look into the HMD and RWR right now since it seems like such a simple fix.
It’s a bit of shame because I enjoy using the Z-10 and it’s such a good looking helicopter
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DIRCM, like L-370
maybe find something else, like a short ranged drone missiles
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As the Z-21 or Z-XX, the new PRC heavy armed helicopter was revealed, it should be a good choice after Z-10 in the future.
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Does the Z-10 have fire and forget ATGMs?
Supposedly a millimeter wave radar guided version of the AKD-10 and the CM-502 (25km range F&F IR guided missile)
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I hope we get it
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The AH1Z has AIM9M which has better anti air due to better range and flare resistance. It also pulls more Gs. So there is no argument of why does no other helicopters have good anti air, its just they’d rather use Hellfires.
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No.
THATS a complete lie lmao. The TY-90’s flare resistance is so much better than the 9M’s its not even close.
It also has a higher dV by ~63%, and therefore likely has more range.
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It is only marginally better in that it has FOV reduction in addition to seeker shut off. This does not make a significant difference in battles, the missiles can be flared using the same tactics. If you really want to argue this point, the flare resistance and seeker range are the same as the Stingers (FIM-92E, FIM-92K, and ATAS).
Seeker FOV:
9M: 3.6°
TY-90: 3.0° at launch, 1.25° with seeker reduction
The 9M seeker covers 44% more area compared to the pre-launch FOV of the TY-90’s, and a whopping 729% more than the reduced area of the TY-90’s seeker.
The TY-90 also has a much higher track rate (40°/s vs 22°/s), making the seeker much better at keeping the target within the reduced FOV of the seeker, and therefore much better at avoiding flares.
Its not “marginally better” it is a MASSIVE improvement in flare resistance over the 9M.
And if you wanna bring the stingers into this, the stingers only have the abysmal 12°/s track rate (almost 1/4 that of the TY-90), making them substantially inferior at keeping a target within the seeker FOV, and only pull 13g’s (despite multiple primary and secondary sources stating otherwise) vs the TY-90’s 20g’s.
3.6 degrees divided by 1.25 degrees is 2.88. Area does not matter for the FOV, the important value is the diametre. Therefore, your “whopping 729% more” calculation (shouldn’t it be 829%?) is a sensationalist figure which is not useful for judging the real performance of the missile’s IRCCM.
The track rate of missiles is not important in War Thunder, as it has no effect in the game. That you mention this significantly in your response makes me doubt your faith in your argument.
The Stingers having 13g is a direct consequence of its simple design with single-channel control. A response was already given by Gaijin.
Is it just me, or does the Z-10 radar have a retractable mast?
Undeployed?
Maybe potential to taunt enemies from the air?
Going a bit off topic here but this has been bothering me a ton with how flare rejection works IRL vs in game. Where do they get this shrinking FOV concept from? The books I’ve read on missile guidance technology never mention it. Early-mid IRCCM was focused on reducing the time that the seeker actually scanned so the probability that a flare would end up generating an additional return on the seekers scan cycle would be low. Later improvements utilized this with data processing so that when an additional return is detected the missiles computer would be able to make determinations about it, like if the next scan it is gone than it was a decoy and that trajectory data-point should be ignored.
I can’t even imagine how they would manage to shrink the FOV of the seeker when it is a rotary disc with primary and secondary mirrors that already are offset so that it is only looking at a fraction of the total image and guides the missile to keep the returns in all of the views. Do you have any links/books/articles on this whole FOV shrinkage? Sounds to me they are using incorrect metrics and should be basing flare resistance off of probability instead of FOV (for missiles that use FOV reduction in game).