“Future proof” is again, wishful thinking because the deal has not passed. There are many examples of deals not working out, Germany didn’t want to upgrade to the 2A7A1, the K2NO lost against the 2A7NO / 2A8NO, general dynamics lost the bid for the Bradley replacement. Don’t claim anything like “future proof” until we actually know its happening.
because they upgrade straight to the 2A8,
besides the current plans are as i stated, i dont know why you are so negativ against possible future italian additions, let italy have some hope that they can become a better tech tree jesus
Besides that the Ariete 2 upgrade and the 2a7Hu are upgrades that will come and already will make the italian tree better
Those of us that are reasonable, greatly appreciate the level headed discussions.
Polarisation never helps anybody. We’re all in this game to have fun, all players, all tech trees. So fleshing out trees that are suffering is to the benefit of everyone, even if I only play against them.
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Understandable. I’ve seen Switzerland has enough to get similar treatment to Israel.
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This is exactly what I was hoping to prevent. I would like to keep it respectful instead of saying “This is a bad argument” I can say that your argument is just as bad.
European defense isn’t a black and white situation.
I don’t know why German tree players are so caught up in wanting to have their own sub tree to themselves. That’s one of the most awful takes I’ve seen.
The RUAG leopard is the one that I see makes for France so it could have develop the tech tree. Because:
- It’s Swiss, which historically close to both France and Germany
- It supposedly has technology inspired by the Leclerc
I’m not trying to keep the RUAG or all of Switzerland to just France.
For me, even as a Swiss, I care little about where a Swiss (sub) tree would end up, and am happy if any Swiss vehicles make it into WT.
Still, I find adding Swiss vehicles to the German tree seems reasonable, as has been done with the Hunter Mk.58, and iirc it has even been hinted that any other Swiss vehicles would end up there. Or the other way round, any other vehicles which may end up in WT would fit closer to the German tree therefore it was decided that the Mk.58 goes to Germany and not Britain. IF I remember the rumors correctly.
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well Uk is the bad precedent and USSR getting stuff of other nations regulary as well doesnt help, we dont necesarily want a sub tree exclusively to germany, but thats just how sub trees work until now and most german players are mostly intrested in filling up the air tree that is dying out now. Just like with the UK playerbase i would say that most german players dont necesarily need or want specialy ground vehicles of other nations (exception being modifications of leo etc)
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As usual, that sets a weird precedent.
So if Germany gets Switzerland, that means France should get Belgium. But that would mean France gets a bunch of modified Leopards alongside anything they used alongside French and indigenous equipment.
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thats why subtrees realy should focus on the more unique vehicles they can offer, like the unique belgium turret cockerill for the boxer or cv they have . Besides that belgium only owned Leopard 1A5s . In general belgium does not own any modern MBTs
Typical Swiss then, haha!
But seriously again: where would a Swiss sub tree make sense?
We had a very long and crazy discussion about this in the old forum when we got the Hunter Mk.58. I think someone even suggested Italy because Swiss serve in the Vatican…
I feel like subtrees are becoming to popular of a solution. Because in my opinion it keeps anything unique that can be given to other trees. But that isn’t what we’ve seen.
Finland is an example where it’s just copy paste, while South Africa has more unique vehicles. However France has a Finnish vehicle in the ITO because it uses the Crotale missile even though it’s considered a sub tree of Sweden.
South Africa and Finland should be unique cases because the tech trees would be smaller and less filled out then without them. Germany doesn’t need a dedicated sub tree, similar to how France doesn’t need a dedicated sub tree.
that is the thing South africa wouldnt be needed in any capacity, UK has plenty of equivalent vehicles
I agree for ground, but for Air germany has a lot less left then france
With Air forces I can definitely agree. It’s a reason why I haven’t started seriously grinding Germany and my friend who plays it says it’s not worth it.
I’m not trying to take any Swiss planes except the Mirage IIIS, because it could replace the Milan as it would be actually useable. Because we don’t have any use for F-5’s and F/A-18’s.
I’m still otherwise confused why the F.58 being in Germany means the U.K can’t get it, because they’ve been going absolutely insane trying to find something else equivalent.
The Swiss can be a sub tree in the air. But the Mirage IIIS has a place in France if Escargot doesn’t want to give us the IIIEX.
It could be handled where Germany gets a bunch of Swiss planes, while Germany and France both get the IIIS.
This whole subtree idiocy will make me quit WT one day.
Makes tiny nations like e.g. Sweden etc. far to strong at the cost of the main european miltech nations, which get permanently beaten by their own technolgy and vehicles. Swiss TT will promote this trend as well, I guess.
While i disagree that France needs Belgium as a subtree (they already have the full 5 lines anyway), i just wanted to mention that Belgian Leopards used their own shells from MECAR, which would make for a substantial improvement over the basic 1A5s :)
(btw there are a ton of Cockerill testbeds available, not just the Boxer and CV)
well that certainly is intresting and nice
well possible taste for multpile brs thats great
As long as the whole thing doesnt end up as a damn Benelux standalone tree, i am fine. But i dont need to start that discussion once again xD
the funny thing to me is always the french proud themself as being one of the biggest armsdealers, but somehow most suggested trees end up with mostly copy pasta german stuff
Dont take that badly french players mostly a joke xD
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As stated already the only other solution to adding vehicles to existing tech trees is adding Benelux to the game. Either way it’ll be an inelegant solution.
So my point is that there shouldn’t be sub trees that prevent others from getting equipment that they could have used, the ITO being an example. At least if a sub tree is added it shouldn’t be seen as taboo for another tech tree to get something from the nation added.
If Gajin follows their roadmap, Leopard tanks will be almost everywhere in future. Wish I would be an US main, their Abrams is still unique. Or the the Leclercs and Challengers. Russia at least almost at top tier.
But Ger…gets totally ransacked to make even the most redicoulus 8 million population country a war thunder copy paste super power.
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