Following this logic, we could argue anything in a minor nation is undertiered against the competition it faces. And Gaijin do that. This is the one time they haven’t. The thing is almost 1:1 with the competition at the rating when accounting for failings and advantages. It is not the fault of the playerbase of Britain that they happen to run into morons who are apparently deaf and blind.
I’d point to challenger. That’s a prime example of where this ends up. Or Leclerc. Or Ariete. Or a lower example; char 25t.
No. Personal stats are just one piece of evidence that can be used to challenge a tank’s current BR. If someone performs better than they usually do in a tank, it can be indicative that it is undertiered.
What is with this constant narrative that everyone who dies to a fox/similar tank is deaf/blind?
Not relevant to this conversation, since it is a different situation.
Given that the Merkava 4 can out accelerate the CR2E in reverse for a considerate distance until 2E top speeds wins.
Ontop of that, the Challenger 2/3s had weight increases about 1/2 months ago making them even slower.
They are so unbearably slow that its negative fun to play them in top tier given how fast all other MBTs are compared to and Top Tier matches where speed is key. I can say they ARE that slow.
AND Eventually when Challenger 3 production comes to the game, its going to be as slow as Challenger 2s, so there is nothing to look forward to for British MBTs because they will always be the slowest most dog shit experience at top tier.
No, it’s exactly the same situation. I could pull out stats showing it is excessively potent and then you’d be obligated to say yes, it is excessively potent because you have these figures. You see how your take’s pretty lacking?
If you have ears, or eyes, a fox is easy to kill. It fires incredibly slowly, and must stay still for even half accurate shots. Unlike other things I could point to.
The thing’s annoying. But it isn’t more of a threat than similar vehicles at the BR. It is arguably less of one given the limitations present with it.
One is talking about global vehicle stats, while the other relates to personal stats. Personal stats can be used as an argument, while global stats are less reliable due to the skill difference between players.
It is wildly inconsistent, and weirdly survivable. I can not hear stuff more than like 300m away too, while also not being that distinct in general. Yeah my bad I couldn’t see a hulldown bush from 400m away, clearly I must be a blind german main!!!
I’d consider it more of a threat due to the higher penning gun and small profile. However, it (and similar tanks) have contributed to killing my motivation to play 8.0ish GRB.
I am currently managing around a 3.0 K/D in the M4 Sherman (3.7 USA ver.) when most of my tanks are below 1. Is it under tiered? Only a few battles in it, I guess we will find out when I have more
And I could easily find a French player with personal stats sufficient to indicate it should go up in BR with the claim it should go up in BR. And you’d be obligated to take it on face, in spite of the fact that we both know full well char 25t should not be at the BR it currently has. But to hold your own argument true, you’d be obligated to say “well maybe it should go up”.
I’m sorry, but I really don’t care for your troubles with it. On a 1:1 with equivalent vehicles it has worse performance in rough terrain (even if only barely), a fire rate that comes close to being (if not is) at least an order of magnitude slower than the competition, and is significantly more impacted by shells shattering by virtue of this. It is loud, you should be able to hear it moving. The gun is distinctive and relatively easy to locate (even for someone dealing with lag as bad as myself). The gun is plausibly underperforming at range compared to the competition as well. It also is unstabilised so can’t effectively engage on the move, unlike other vehicles that fire faster or are stabilised. Or in the case of the xm800, both. On the topic of weird survivability, I’ve had almost all foxes die when shot the first time, but xm800s survive rounds centremass. This is also the experience of my peers, but we don’t see people ranting about that as an excuse for it to go up.
It is annoying, sure. Almost all autocannon vehicles are, but that does not warrant it being sent up in BR whilst the rest retain their positions.
Sorry for not explaining my point well. My point is that an individual player can use their stats/experience as evidence for something needing to go up. However, they are disconnected from the global stats of a vehicle, and that stats aren’t the true defining factor in balance. For example, I believe that the 76mm Jumbo could be 6.0/not 0.3 below the late war heavies, however my stats show that it is quite good at 6.3. I can use them as an argument for it to go up, but me having good stats doesn’t mean that it should go up.
I have the opposite experience XM800Ts seem more vulnerable to overpressure/hmgs, but I’d consider them better than the Fox due to the stabilizer.
If I had my way, I’d choos the nuclear option and remove all similar vehicles since they can’t be balanced in a way that is enjoyable for everyone.
I understand your point, but I am trying to get you to see how it really doesn’t matter in the face of 1:1 comparisons. I could find someone with great stats in char 25t, and they could say it should go up. That person’s stats are disconnected from the wider stats, as you want. That doesn’t mean it is good cause to consider sending it up, when on a 1:1 comparison, char is abysmal at the BR and in no sane world should it go up.
As it stands, it is balanced fine. You get punished for not being careful, and they get punished for being too greedy. The Fox is significantly less of a threat than the xm800 in my experience, as it dies when it is shot, and it is incredibly loud whilst lacking the ability to just circle you and shoot out your barrel and tracks with ease. Hell, the fire rate means it struggles to even circle you and shoot out crew unless by some miracle the shells don’t shatter.
It’s annoying, won’t deny that. But you’ve plenty of means to fuck it up, and in most circumstances plenty of warning where it is. Unlike comparable options.
gaijin: hey hey hey we balance vehicles based on the performance of the entire vehicle line up within its br, since brits have pretty much dogshit 7.7s so we keep a strong light tank there to offset their dogshitness bro
Man I cant wait for Ferret 2/6 or mk V to truly make people miss the days of just the fox coming at 'em. Yet alone the rest of the crazy train of blowpipe missiles and the like to protect from air etc on 30+hp/t wheelie platforms.
Fire rate only helps to engage multiple targets, problem is, for those higher fire rate, less pen tanks, they can’t even pen a lot of vehicles, which then means all that fire rate isn’t good for a whole lot.
so you want the fox to be the same br as the pt 76 57? kindly go look at the br you want to put it at and think very carefully about weather or not it should be there… Its amazing but not so great as to contend with 8.0 and 8.3 mbts and light tanks. We dont need another situation like the falcon where its at 8.3 without a radar (it had contrast track irl but gaijin refuse to give us it) while we have spaa like the veak and such at 7.7 with 40mm cannons and radar.
u think people would actually be afraid of blowpipes? But im more looking forward to the saladin with the 2pdr with the little john adapter and apds. the pen of a 17pdr with a 3 second reload on a frame with a v8… What more could you want?
