T18 and T14 also should really have gone to the UK or been present in the UK.
Considering both were made specifically for the UK and in the case of the T18 the UK was its only user.
1 Like
Wasnt there some info found a while ago where RARDEN was supposed to be 90 rpm or something? Or was that just the warrior?
I remember something about the rpm being 90 and how it wouldn’t be possible with how reloads are done in WT.
Faster than a 7.5 sec main gun.
Also, I appreciate you reporting my original post because I have brought logic to the conversation.
The fox will be perfectly fine at 8.0, it’ll do ALL the same things it could before, EXCEPT, now enemy teams are more likely to have the ability to fight back.
It also boosts its rewards, which you probably didn’t think of.
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I don’t report post, i’m not that petty even if I disagree with you. But thanks for assuming I did it.
So
BMP-2. Should be at a BR where everything has good enough ERA to protect against the ATGM. Maybe 11.3? Will still be able to do everything it can now, but it wont one shot everyone cross map
3 Likes
Again another dense point of view, can you not avoid its attacks?
-it’s slow,
-large
-has to be fully stopped to fire it’s ATGMs
So what would you do then? There’s clearly only two options.
A: fox goes to 8.0, no other vehicles get buffs.
B: fox stays at 7.7, BTR-80As (Russian and Italian get buffed to 94 pen with APDS, and that stupid bar behind the turret remove.), xm800T gets buffed to 72 pen same with RCV, etc.
That is the only logical solution.
Because keep in mind:
2a72: 82 pen: 30x165
Rarden: 110 pen: 30x170
How is it a vastly worse vehicle, is only one br beneath a vehicle that does everything far better?
The fox can destroy heavy tanks, medium, TD, etc with ease.
C: leave it where it is, no artificial buffs or nerfs. Get over the Fox and move on.
8 Likes
Okay. Bring the BTR pen up. Unless you have documentation to support:
The 2a72 pen being so bad compared to the Rarden.
and the fox has
- No Stabiliser
- No TVD
- No ATGMs
- No LRF
- No Drone
- Wheeled not tracked
- Lowest fire rate of any autocanon
and you are proposing it must be placed at a BR where it will face only things with all of the above. Heck the Warrior has the same gun, but with MILAN 2s, TVD, LRF and a Drone at 8.3
But god-forbid your 3km ATGMs be nerfed at 8.7 where my Chieftain Mk3 gets insta one shotted by them and there is no defence against them. I wouldnt want Soviets to struggle
7 Likes
Your wanting the BTR pen buffed. YOU need to find documentation and convience Gaijin that the current 2A72 ballistics is wrong.
Given that the 2A72 has a shorter barrel AND lower shell size, its no wonder RARDEN is 200 m/s faster.
1 Like
Your argument is as clouded as it was when you were posting against the A-10C going up in BR.
Does the fox need to go to 8.7? No.
It can already see 8.7, so you don’t really have a point.
Wow a TVD at 8.3, lucky.
Also, funny you list wheeled as a downside, on pretty much every terrain it’s a large benefit in game, other than sand and rivers if I recall.
It has the lowest fire rate, but acts like an atomic bomb when it hits a target, its most similar counterparts, do not act the same way.
and your argument for the Su-24 to get R-73s was
“A-10 has 4x Aim-9Ms so the Su-24 should get 6x R-73s at the same BR”
Fox is only good because players dont defend the flanks, if they did, it would be one of the weakest IFVs in game at the moment with its low fire rate and lack of stabiliser. 99% of it’s kills I see people get in it, they shot the target in the back. Any tank or IFV in that situation would do the same.
But Because its Britsih, everyone hates it and wants to nerf. You just want soviet equipment to the best and can’t stand any nation having better.
You REFUSED to accept that the Fox has very little going for it compared to many other IFVs, you REFUSED to accept that IFVs like the XM800 actually have advantages over the Fox. You REFUSED to even consider that soviet equipment like the BMP-2 might be over-powered and need to go up based upon your own argument.
Even IF the fox moves to 8.0. You’ll be back on here the following day complaining about it again and wont rest until its 12.0+ .Same with the A-10C. You tried to low and slow dogfight one in a Mig-23M and got rekt, therefore it must be OP. You wont be happy until that is at 13.7+ but god-forbit the Su-25s with IRCCM missiles move up at all
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“Overall, 53-BM54 is on the same technological level as the 25mm M791 APDS and 30mm RARDEN L14 APDS. Because all of them have an uncapped tungsten alloy penetrator in a plastic sabot, they are not comparable to modern APDS shells for tank guns. Their performance degrades more rapidly on sloped armour, and they are more vulnerable to spaced or composite armour.“
THEY ARE EXTREMELY SIMILAR ROUNDS. Which I suspect the Fox’s gun is over preforming, and again, the most similar gun 2a72 may be under preforming.
Source:
So, RemoveCASfromGRB, considering the low amount of vehicles and time you have compared to me, not to mention you quite literally don’t have the Btr (the worst of the bunch)
Your stats vs mine:
Also, the ACTUAL pen vs an M48 for a btr btw :)
Only reliable side pen spot:
So submit a bug report then.
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder
Make a thread about buffing the BTR’s gun instead of nerfing every non-soviet vehicle into the ground
7 Likes
Because I don’t know which one is technically over preforming / under preforming. Where I live I cannot access all the rarden documents, as I’m sure they are classified still.
I would need that documentation.
Resorting to stat shaming. Actual appalling, when nothing else work, just stat shame I guess.
Since it seems you are actually incapable of reading, I will simply copy and paste what I said that you just ignored.
Given that the 2A72 has a shorter barrel AND lower shell size, its no wonder RARDEN is 200 m/s faster.
RARDEN -
5mm more length = More gun powder
Longer Barrel = More velocity
2A72 -
5mm shorter case = less gun powder
Shorter Barrel = Less velocity
Your also stat shamming when myself never said the BTR was bad, your just having a nuclear meltdown over the Fox simply because something is better(Penetration Wise) then a Russian vehicle, and no reasonable person wants vehicles nerfed because of a personal vendetta someone has for that vehicle.
8 Likes
As far as I am aware, some of that data has already been found, check the warrior thread. The shells are not overperforming and in-fact the RARDEN is underperforming and should have a fire rate of 90 RPM but game limitations prevent it from recieving that fire rate or something.
If you can get sources for the BTR’s gun and it is actually underperforming in game. Submit a bug report.
But
“BTR 's gun is worse at the same BR so nerf the Fox”
is just a bad argument that will go absolutely no where
6 Likes
Lmao okay, I’m speaking facts, yes the FPS is higher with the Rarden than the 2a72, which is accurate in game, in fact, that source I posted btw, also shows that the 2a72 fires a HEAVIER projectile, which, means upon penetration it should deal more damage, the Rarden ammo is lighter, so yes it’s faster in speed.
Not stat shaming, you have triple the kills I do in my BTRs, so how is that shaming you? It’s proving the FOX is op, vs say, the BTR, with THE MOST SIMILAR GUN.
Barrel length: 2a72: 2.416 meters
Rarden: 2.44 meters
That’s not a drastic difference btw.