Flares for aircraft above 10.0/aircraft that can see 30G overload missiles

TLDR: GIVE AIRCRAFT THAT FACE 30G OVERLOAD MISSILES FLARES GOD DAMN IT

Hello.

I feel as though this isn’t talked about enough, but I feel as though aircraft that have possibilities of seeing 30G overload missiles (aircraft 9.0 BR and above) should have the ability to load flares. Now, there’s gonna be A-10 or Su-25 players who will object to this because they’d lose the possibility of getting easy kills; but it’s just plain unfair. And yes, I know you can load rockets as a substitute, but they heavily weigh down an aircraft, making engagements unwise unless you got rid of the rockets.

Sure, it would be unrealistic to have a Cold War fighter have access to flares, but it’s also unrealistic to have Cold War Era fighters fight against aircraft from the 80s, like the Frogfoot or Warthog. The lack of high tier aircraft with no flares is particularly atrocious with Italy, France, and Sweden, as they all have aircraft in the 10.0-10.3 BR bracket with access to no flares whatsoever. Why should I grind through the entire Sweden tree to get to Tier VII at last! And get shot down continuously by people who spent $60 or $70 on a plane and have access to 18G to 30G all aspect missiles like R60s and 9Ls? I understand there is game sense required, but if your only “counter” to fighting an aircraft is to runaway, then maybe barriers or counterstrategies are required for those aircraft.

It’s doubly irritating knowing that the Saab J35XS, a premium aircraft which is better than the J35D in almost every way, is only 0.4 BR and has access to countermeasures - albeit only 12. But 12 countermeasures are 6 more chances to flare off an otherwise unavoidable missile. It has access to 6 RB24Js (2 more than the J35D), an IRST radar, and faces virtually the same aircraft. Why not give the J35D 12 countermeasures too? Or would that ‘BrEaK HisTorIcAl CoNTInUiTY’?

It’s just irritating to fight against aircraft that have all aspect missiles that are unavoidable unless you are starting out with a massive speed and distance advantage, but that’s rarely ever the case.

List of aircraft (with no flares) that can face 30G all aspect missiles.
America: F-104A/C, F-86F-2, F-100D, F-4C, F3H-2, F4D-1, F11F-1
Germany: CL-13A Mk5/6, F-86K, MiG-19S, MiG-23BN
Russia: Yak-38, MiG-19PT, MiG-21F-13, Su-7/BKL, MiG-21PFM, MiG-21S, Su-17
GB: Hunter F.1/6, Lightning F.53/6, Jaguar GR. 1
Japan: F-86F-40, F-104J, T-2/Early, F-1
Taiwan: F-100A, F-104A, J-6A, J-7bis, Q-5 early, Q-5L
Italy: F-86K, Sagittario 2, G.91 Y/YS, Ariete
France: Super Mystere B2, Mirage IIIC, F86K, F-8E(FN), F-100D, Etendard IVM
Sweden: J-29F, J-32B, J-35A, J-35D, A-32A, J-35
IsraeL: Sambad, Sa’ar, Shahak, Ayit, Nesher

Those are all aircraft that can go against A-10As (10.0), A-10A lates (10.3 with FOUR AIM9Ls) or Su-25/Ks (10.0).

1 Like

Also, that list of aircraft that I listed was only the ones I could remember in the base tree, if there were any removed or flash-sale premium aircraft that I missed, please feel free to comment them below.

This is absurd.

Yea… I believe the Q-5L especially is taking a nasty beating, it gets no CMs because the devs straight refuse to give it any and it has no stock ordnance FOR AN ATTACKER.
So yea, damn the BR compression I guess

1 Like

You would have to prove those planes can equip CM’s.

Dude said that he doesnt care if they had them irl or not.

2 Likes

It’s insane to not have any defense against missiles that dominate the games at those BRs, every single game you will face either an A-10 or an Su-25 at the very least and they’re basically giant no fly zones because the moment you get near, you’re dead, and they’re flying around constantly throwing flares out so missiles don’t help either.

Without flares a lot of these planes are just an exercise in frustration.

Gaijin knows they can’t fix it so they’re just going to leave a huge chunk of planes in the “unfixable” bin and hope people just choose to stop playing them entirely.

Planes with decent flight performance and rocket pods are surprisingly playable at 10.0ish. I used my recently unlocked J35D for the event grind, and it proved rather good at dealing with the costant A10/Su-25 swarms. Swapping a single AIM-9P for a rocket pod allows me to very consistently deal with AIM-9L or R60MKs with proper positioning, and the great flight performance allowed to be consistently be in good positions. Sitting at higher altitudes is relatively safe if you aren’t uptiered too harshly, and the ground attackers won’t be able to hit you that high.

That, or simply sweep around the map and hit them from behind while they’re still trundling in. Even if they’re constantly flaring, they move too slowly to avoid guns from anything more agile than an F-104, just be ready to fire off a rocket if you overshoot and they get a missile off. Hell, against Su-25s, you’re often going fast enough to just bleed the R60 of energy and dodge it kinematically.

Now, I agree, I shouldn’t have to carry a rocket pod as an erstatz flare pod. Anything 10.0 or above should have flares, by whatever means nessesary. Be it F-5C style “Well it could theoretically fit flares”, like giving the XS’s flare dispensers to the J35D, or readding the flares to the French F-8E, or pretending the chaff pod the F-1 got IRL could fire flares as well.

But since that seems unlikely to happen, best to play around them. A couple notes on rockets as flares though. Firstly, you cannot fire them while going over mach 1, so make sure you bleed speed preemptively if you need to. Secondly, they don’t work while in line with the missile either in a headon or a tail chase, unlike flares they aren’t deployed up or down so the missile will just follow them right into your plane. Make sure you fire them off at an angle, that way when chasing the missile’s trail it’ll lose sight of you. Finally, they don’t act like chaff, so don’t headbutt an R3R because you expect your rockets to bail you out.

Carrying rockets means you cannot carry missiles so you’re already hard nerfing yourself of potent weaponry, and flying high you run into radar missiles, and running low there’s just A-10s and Su’s everywhere you cannot get within a few km to.

Not to mention the rockets also affect your flight performance.

Your example picture here is kinda funny, because both the T-2 and F-1 can carry rocket pods on pylons that cannot carry missiles. So you can bring a full load of missiles and a rocket pod.

In fact, of all the flareless subsonic planes around 10.0 that have the choice between rocket pods and missiles, there are only two that require you to give up a missile to use a rocket pod, the J35D and the F104J.

You don’t run into competent RADAR missiles (That require chaff to evade, not just mild mauevers) until 11.0 generally. The only exception is the AIM-9Cs on the F-8E, which you do need to watch out for, but these are medium range missiles (Only as much range as an AIM-9D/G), so you can see them coming and avoid them.

Rocket pods do affect performance, no doubt, which is why I will keep saying that we shouldn’t have to rely on them. But it’s a sacrfice that allows you to pretty safely reap the rewards of that herd of slow, unagile ground attackers each game. You see a wall of death, I see 3-4 kills easy. The vast majority are premium players with no spatial awareness, jump them from behind or above and you can often pick off a couple without them even reacting.

Your example picture here is kinda funny, because both the T-2 and F-1 can carry rocket pods on pylons that cannot carry missiles. So you can bring a full load of missiles and a rocket pod.

Yeah, I was just thinking of the default loadout which doesn’t offer those options.

You don’t run into competent RADAR missiles (That require chaff to evade, not just mild mauevers) until 11.0 generally.

The F-1 goes up to 11.3 which isn’t great, despite not really being a significant upgrade over the T-2 either beyond being able to carry more missiles.

That’s why it’s important to try and figure out the tier based on the other planes on the runway before you take off. That way you’ll know how safely you can climb

The F-1 is still in a seriously rough spot. The flight performance just isn’t there to be a competitive plane at that tier, which the rocket pod does tank even harder, but it’s required due to the sheer number of high G missiles you face at 10.3 and up. I ended up finishing my grind in the F-1 as a bomb truck.

However, get used to it, because the F4EJ is very much the same story.

I have the pleasure of also grinding the F-104 first which is basically the same thing but different, probably going to go back to the T-2 or a lower rank because I see little value in the F-1.

As someone who’s also ground out high tier Japan aircraft, let me guide you.

From personal experience, the T-2 is the best bet for tier VI. It’s not great, but AIM-9Ps at 9.7 on a somewhat reasonable platform is the best you’re going to get. Bring a single rocket pod, but jettison it when you don’t need it (If you’re top tier and there aren’t facing Swiss Hunters, for instance).

Stay quick, and never completely commit to a dogfight by turning more than once. Almost everything will out-rate you. Use your high speed and AOA ability to jump people who are already in dogfights and have burnt their speed. Save your AIM-9Ps for high value targets who you cannot reasonably beat in a 1v1. MiG-19s, F-104s, F8s, stuff like that.

Then for the F4EJ, just bombtruck. It’s one of the worst Phantoms tier for tier in the entire game, you get no wing slats so you cannot dogfight just about anything, and you get poor missiles (AIM-9Ps which are average, but not on a poor dogfighter like this, and AIM-7Es with no PD, which are very poor for the tier). You can bring enough bombs to clear two bases on your own, while also carrying a full load of missiles to throw at people desperate in case you survive. It’s not fun, but it’s the best way to get you to the F-16AJ and F-15J.

A sidenote, I haven’t touched the EJ Kai yet, but I don’t expect it to be good. Good missiles aren’t going to carry an F-4 airframe that has to fight F-16s and worse every match.

1 Like