Flakpanzer vs Ostwind II, Panther II E-100 etc

Why was the Flakpanzer removed of which a wooden mockup existed and was considered to be build because ‘not real’ but then Ostwind II got added which never existed in any form.

I think it is also unfair to still have this Vehicle in the Game where you not rarely encounter them, have YouTubers/Mods/Devs play with them but now you can’t get it anymore due to reasons which i think no longer matter at all and just seem arbitrary and irrelevant nowadays.

Like the E-100 is also still available albeit on the Market but its just as unfinished as the Panther II for example - both only had the chassis completed and for the E-100 Gaijin just slapped the Maus Turret on it but the Panther II gets removed.

And now you got several Vehicles in the Game just based on papers, half-finished Prototypes or based on wooden Mockups but why are they ok but something which is still in the Game and can be encountered but is locked away from new Players isn’t?

I don’t think ‘historical’ ’ realism’ or ‘immersion’ matters a thing anymore in this Game where you fight with WW2 Vehicles on modern-themed Maps alongside Cold War Vehicles with Anime Pillows on their Tanks and many Vehicles just get not accurate/real Stats anyway if for balancing.

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Out of curiosity, what other vehicles in game are based on wooden mockups?

Don’t really get the ‘they were placeholders’ either - why didn’t they make the Vehicles they were placeholdlers for first then instead of adding those and then remove? And i don’t think thats an argument to still keep them locked away especially nowadays

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For arbitrary reasons.
They were placeholders for vehicles that never came anyways.

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It’s not about placeholders, its that the criteria for adding new things to the game have changed since 10 years ago (with the exception of naval; they have said that the unfinished ships in naval is not indicative of what will come to the overall game). Yeah, there’s the example of the J6K1, but Gaijin has already said that the J6K1 is a one-off case and that sort of thing will not happen again.

The E 100 wasn’t removed from the tree because it was an event vehicle to begin with.

As for the R2Y2s, they’ve already said that they have plans to replace those. It was said in an answers from the devs a year and a half or so back. I’d assume the replacement would be the P-3 Orion.

Edit: found it. [QA] Answers from the developers - News - War Thunder

If you’re looking for reason, you’re not going to find it on the forums. Gaijin has a very specific rule when it comes to history and fiction. In Naval, basically anything goes. For air and ground, if you’re a minor nation that’s struggling, you can have paper vehicles “as placeholders,” but if you’re a major nation then only players who have been playing the game for a long time can use paper vehicles. Etc. etc…

It’s all BS to justify decisions after the fact.

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You can make that case for almost any removed premium, rewards for alpha/beta testing and event vehicles.

Also none of those are OP or anything.

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That argument only means something if you think things should be exclusives. I don’t think anything should be exclusive- everything that gets removed should at least be able to be purchased as a pack vehicle or for GE.

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Yes, I believe some things should be exclusive. I don’t see a reason why they shouldn’t

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Why not make the Panther II, Flakpanzer etc. then Event Vehicles or like how the Maus is being handled returning annualy during an Event for people to get the chance of grinding it.

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The reason the Panther II and Tiger II 105 were removed wasn’t because they were only mockups, it’s because they’re 100% fictional.

The Tiger II 105 is the simplest case, as it is 100% impossible as currently depicted. There is not enough room in that turret for the breach of the 105mm, let alone an extra crewmember and a rangefinder. There was an idea to put a 105mm into a Tiger II, but AFAIK, that’s as far as it got. They realized the breach wouldn’t fit, and the Heer wasn’t interested as they’d never actually adopted the 105mm, meaning problematic logistics at a time when Germany’s logistics were already a burning dumpster fire.

The Panther II as shown is completly fictional. The IRL Panther II was nothing more than a slightly uparmored Panther F that was easier to manufacture. That’s it. No improved transmission, no Tiger II engine, no 88mm main gun, and certainly not a first gen IR night sight. A hull was completed, then they realised they could fix the Panther’s problematicly weak side armor by slapping on some schutzen (Sideskirts), and did that instead. The Americans later recovered the hull, slapped a Panther G turret on it, and sent it to Aberdeen for testing IIRC.

The Coelian should be readded though. It’s just as real as the Ostwind II that replaced it, it was a real design that reached mockup status and it’s not exactly absurd to think it could have made it to production had the German war industry not completely collapsed by that point. It’s also a strafe resistant AA, which the game needs more of.

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There are plenty of reasons why things shouldn’t be exclusive: Gaijin could make more money selling them, players who weren’t able to participate at the time can still enjoy the content, line-ups are better for more players, etc. Can you articulate a valid reason why they should be exclusive?

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They did that because the Maus actually existed while the others didn’t. I disagree with them not being available again, I think that they should be researchable every anniversary like the Maus, but that is Gaijin’s reasoning.

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Now there will be an argument on what it means to “exist” XD

There’s an official shipping manifest of the sole Ostwind II prototype, but no delivery confirmation which could mean it was stolen, blown up, or fell off the rail into a forest that no one looking into.
T28 had no surviving examples until it was found.
Chi-Nu was in a similar situation.

As for the fake vehicles; all will be delisted at some point.

I understand your frustration at their delisting.
You’re not missing out on Coellion though, I’ll say that. Doesn’t get HVAP anymore, so it’s just an Ostwind II at a higher BR due to its armor.

True. The Maus was assembled at least, while the Flakpanzer 341 was a mockup, The Tiger II (10.5 cm Kw.K) was only a drawing and was physically impossible, and the Panther II ingame wasn’t even a drawing and no one ever even proposed a version with a Panther F turret armed with an 88 mm and a night vision device.

Can you link that shipping manifesto for the prototype?

They are prizes for people that played during that time, they were there in the past when playerbase was smaller, they were part of the development of the game. Same for people that were part of teams working towards getting those prizes in tournament. If everyone can just get them, there is no point, effort is wasted.

You can’t go back in time, but you sure can stay for what the future offers. There will be many more.

Also you can get a lot of those vehicles already via lootboxes, if you want to support Gaijin making money.

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I don’t think it’s gonna just be the P-3 Orion. My guess their gonna replace it with 3 different vehicles since this is simply one of those cases where replacing one just isn’t feasible due to how small the tree is.