The chances of Gaijin removing a vehicle are little to none once it’s shown in development. So as Prism said, they will take said route. Also, do not ping/mention me.
I’d be perfectly fine with them keeping the one coming in the game and changing the name to something like what Iluminas suggested (ie Möbelkraftwagen mit 3cm Flakvierlingslafette). Then later down the line the real Flakpanzer IV (3 cm Flakvierling) ‘Zerstörer 45’ (which funnily enough was in that big huge model leak eons ago) could be added.
I mean at this point we have the Ostwind II which also has a massive debate around it in terms of whether or not it was built in the form we have in the game. So honestly at this point, the gun mount was built, it’s pretty much your standard run-of-the-mill Panzer IV conversion so I say go ahead and add the actual Flakpanzer IV (3 cm Flakvierling) ‘Zerstörer 45’ even if questions exist on if it was built or not.
As for the actual history of both vehicles, I should make note that in conversations I’ve had with Hillary Doyle, he has said neither the Ostwind II nor the Flakpanzer IV (3 cm Flakvierling) ‘Zerstörer 45’ were ever actually fully built as Ostbau-Sagan could not construct such prototypes so late in the war.
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I keep very good tabs on leaks and I never saw the Zestorer 45’s model being leaked. The only leak I know of for the Zestorer 45 was simply the names of vehicles that Gaijin was working on, but no models came attached.
Now we know that this is the “actual” Zestorer 45 they were working on.
one Zerstörer 45 prototype that where built which is the Flakpanzer IV 3cm Flakvierling and not the Mobelwage 3cm Flakvierling.
Where does it say the prototype isn’t the Mobelwagen? It says:
“first built on a Mobelwagen chassis for testing purposes, and was to be installed in a turret of a Wirbelwind later.”
“only one prototype built by Ostbau in December 1944.”
To me this text reads that the Mobelwagen is to be considered the Zerst 45 prototype built in December 1944. The implications of “was to be installed in the turret of a Wirbelwind” implies that it wasn’t done.
The Mobelwagen was only used for testing purposes and thus can’t be considered the prototype as far as the Zerstörer 45 goes. Even Doyle says the same thing
Gaijin dropped the ball yet again. My thoughts are: how the hell did gaijin & some others on here miss the text clearly stating…to increase the effectiveness of the Wirbelwind (not Möbelwagen), the 3 cm Mk 103 was to replace the 2 cm:
What was suggested here was the Zerstörer 45, not some poorly done, random fantasy interpretation of a ““Möbelwagen mit 3 cm Flakvierling””. Gaijin has been pulling this kind of subterfuge since this game’s inception, such as on the:
1.) Me 264 V3, which should have had the BMW 801 G, the enlarged definitive production wing, RATO, the finalized defensive armament of seven MG 151 & one MG 131, and the external wing racks
2.) Bv 238 V4, which should have had its missing MG 131s in the side S-Stands, larger caliber bombs besides the SC 250, and the external wing racks
3.) Bv 155 B, which should have never been put into this game since it was just a developmental interim airframe abandoned in favor of the definitive configuration: the Bv 155 C
4.) Fw 200 C-1, which is a weaker, extremely rare variant that was inexplicably added to this game at the expense of the mainstream & common Fw 200 C-4
5.) StuG III G, which, in contrast to the excessive amounts of identical T-34 that proliferate this game, gaijin has decided to implement in only one single early example of the prolific Ausführung G series in a rare, early May 1943 configuration instead of a peak of production representation. To make matters worse, even the Finnish have been denied a proper StuG III G representation as well
6.) Ju 87 D-5’s divebrake which were repeatedly disabled in 2014 due to gaijin’s lack of research & incompetent stubbornness. If anyone still remembers my old topic (now hidden) on that, and the effort it took to reimplement something that never should have been removed
With regards to German vehicles, gaijin deliberately picks and chooses whatever fictional, rare, random, or least effective configuration that fits their whim instead of the actual, finalized, and definitive configuration selected for mass production. I will predict that the next target of their bias will most likely be the Junkers Ju 287. Instead of the expected V3, the V1 low-speed testbed will be implemented into this game
They did exactly that for the Kronshtadt &/or the Togs’s tank:
What this guy said. At the minimum, gaijin should either:
A.) rename this vehicle to 3 cm Flakvierling auf Fahrgestell Panzerkampfwagen IV (Sf) or Möbelwagen mit 3 cm Flakvierling
B.) completely rework the model by deleting & replacing the 3 cm MK 103 weapons with either a 1 x 3.7 cm or 4 x 2 cm while renaming the vehicle to 3.7 cm Flak auf Fahrgestell Panzerkampfwagen IV (Sf), 2 cm Flakvierling auf Fahrgestell Panzerkampfwagen IV (Sf), or Möbelwagen
C.) pass this bungled attempt at a Zerstörer 45 off as an elaborate April Fools joke and then execute either A.) or B.)
Most importantly, a suggestion for the Zerstörer 45 should be resubmitted until it is approved, just to make sure that gaijin doesn’t get away with this and so that the actual Zerstörer 45 gets (eventually) implemented into this game
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I feel defeated man every one got to have thier fake stuff but when it comes to Germany noo how dare us have some fun
You missed the part where it states only the mobelwagan prototype was built.
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And TOG with 76 mm was the only version that got built, Yak 141 never had any kind of armament and R2Y2s and HO-RI production aren’t even real and the list continues but i think what i am trying to say is clear
Btw don’t play with words buddy even in the pics and documents all of them stated that the gun was first built on Mobelwage and never sed it was only built on the Mobelwage meaning there was other prototypes not to mention that the Mobelwage was only for testing and never meant to nor was supposed to be the Zerstörer 45 since it never came close to the requirements
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No it isn’t.
The one that is in the museum right now is the 94 mm version. It was believed for a very long time that it was a 17 pounder because the museum inspected the interior of the turret and the breech matched that of the 17 pounder, but in reality, the “28 pounder” as it is called actually uses the same breech as the 17 pounder, and the barrel diameter is 94 mm as it has been measured.
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So your telling me the Tog II use a breach that can fire a 76mm shell to fire 94mm shell how is this even possible
Both the 17 and pounder have a 135 rim diameter for their casings, all that is needed is a barrel change.
That’s all the 28 pounder is. Pretty much a 17 pounder with a new barrel to fire 94 mm projectiles
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Honestly, at this point, we already have the Ostwind II (which also is up for debate on whether it was built or not) so I don’t see the issue in eventually adding the actual Flakpanzer IV Zerstörer 45. Gaijin could even group it with the Mobelwagen test vehicle.
As for the TOG II*, yeah the II* does indeed have a 94mm 28-pounder that uses the breach of the 17pdr. Andrew Hills talks about it a bit in his book on the TOG II. Bovington even confirmed it does have a 94mm 28 Pounder as well from what I remember.
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In this case, I trust Mr H. Doyle’s image which clearly is not a Möbelwagen, has a turret on it, and is labeled Zerstörer 45 - Prototyp. In addition to this, some fool on the russian forum claims that this is an image of one:
That is clearly a Wirbelwind with the Canvas Muzzle covers.
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Those are very clearly not Mk 103 cannons as the barrels are far too short.
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That is why I used the word ‘fool’
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Then you know that the picture isn’t showing a “Zestorer 45” and is therefore fairly meaningless to this topic.
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Bc this pic was used in the Zerstörer 45 suggestion on the Russian forum but some how the suggestion was approved while mine got denied over and over it may not be relevant to this topic but it’s relevant to me
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