I voted the more realistic approach, so don’t blame me XD
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alot of friends i know if not all voted for the realistic approach, but people wanted to kill others easier thats why it lost the vote
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This is the biggest loss ever, we were so close to greatness…
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it would made fighting a heavy tank more fun
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people keep saying they want more realism, go that far to leak classified documents lmfao
but decline a realistic feature
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Sadly heavy tanks must be worse every year:(
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heavy tanks dont even matter anymore, with how many more HE slingers they add.
if theres one at every br no one will use any kind of tanks except the HE slingers
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back then i used to struggle to find any weakspot on the T10M that i can pen with rounds that arent HEATFS etc.
now all i need to use is a vehicle with Large caliber and shoot the top of the turret or even its hull to kill it with a single shot
back then for me it was satisfying to get kills, finding new ways to kill it
now all you need it a HE with atleast 5kg of tnt
1 Like
@Ghostmaxi your though on it?
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/lMGOfZUgh6cw
Edit: it got Not a Bug
mains reasons why tank doing very will?
1-first as i comment before it was the APHE change !
2-OG and veteran players who own are the most experiences players yes i abuse it to bully new players sorry :(
3-Br did not get changed i don’t know why gajin did not change the BR to 7.0+ like to 7.3 or 7.7
also the the guns are not fake they were planned to be used and 4 of them built
Flakpanzer 341 “Coelian” was intended to mount the 3.7 cm Flak 341 (Gerät 341)
flak 44 is fake
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most people just dont know how to kill it
its unavailable to them
has a feature that makes EVERY player shoot the hull instead of the turret </3
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they can just add a different variant for the tech tree, also based on a panther hull
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Thing is, we have tried this for years now - and what is the result?
People either 1) stop playing the AA completely or 2) sit uselessly in their own spawn, planes know exactly where they will be, and gang up on said AAs.
Clearly, we cannot expect under any reasonable circumstance for the average player to ever use SPAAG “correctly.” Thus, we must adjust the SPAAGs to suit the reality of the game mode - an IFV with optional AA ability when the situation permits.
Unfortunately, average players do not play intelligently like this - either they 1) use what is effective at the only relevant thing to grinding (getting kills) or 2) they don’t use the vehicle much.
Setting up SPAAGs like this only results in them being functionally irrelevant much like bombers are in Air RB. Technically there and sometimes used, but never worth anything in the match.
City maps are the problem. Restricting SPAAGs from the ammo they were able to load in whatever amount they needed IRL is a case of “punishing the shark for the utter stupidity of the seal.” The ONLY way to fix this is to open up the maps AND move objective locations so every map has no more than ONE in an urban or suburban area. An example would be taking normal-size (aka large) Maginot Line, removing all the houses, small trees, and bushes around the two caps not inside the city section. Some modest rolling hills helping restrict sightlines are fine - a maze of wooden junk is not.
Another part that must be said is that it seems whatever metrics the Snailgorithm uses to judge vehicle BRs seem to be overly punishing to SPAAGs that happen to be good at killing tanks. Except the ZSU-57 for some reason. Perhaps those metrics need adjusting, after which a lot of overblown SPAAG BRs can come down without any dumb artificial nerfs.
The Bosvark’s only hope is ironically all Russian 23mm guns getting their missing APDS belts. Then at least your funny truck can be sorta like the Hungarian dual 30mm thing.
The intent is to leave them at their current BRs on purpose, with naked threat of LOWERING them if the community whines too much. There is blatant hypocrisy with the community currently - allowing IFVs to pretty much run the mode however they wish but cry foul at any SPAAG which is only a fraction as effective. And the only way to uproot this hypocrisy is to change it anyway and then intentionally ignore all whining until the whiners give up. I personally see zero difference between an SPAAG going Ersatz-TD mode and an IFV - hell in many cases the latter IFV is all-around better at the anti-tank job!
Those need to be fixed regardless. My rightful concern is that “temporary” fixes like what you suggest end up being permanent due to snail’s attention span being…strained…to say the least. Look at how long it takes for some badly overtiered machines to come down years after they got hammered with nasty nerfs. We don’t need more of that.
It would work, actually - just give each nation in a given BR range a “pool” of a single SPAAG with an unchangeable loadout. If some nations have several options at the same BR range, cool I guess, maybe those could use Naval’s “rotation” setup fully.
The point here is moreso anti-whining than anything else. If you have the tools to help yourself but choose not to use them, the issue is on you, not the game.
2 Likes
Though it says APIT, if you test fire the round it works exactly the same as a regular APHE.
The reason that is, is because in real life, it is one, as shown here;
(Specifically a APHEIT)
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Actually I was revenge-killed by a J7W1 using its APHE belts from above - if the guns have enough pen, they do go through just fine - the turret roof is only 15mm thick and hull roof is only 16mm.
I can imagine the game getting this alternate version in the future, tbfh.
That ship has unfortunately sailed with the poll gone haywire.
They probably intend to re-release them or even fully and permanently re-introduce them. Ever since they added in fully fake ships like Sovetsky Soyuz, the argument they had for why they removed the German WunderTonks evaporated pretty much overnight.
And of course I fully expect the R2Y2s to come back in the future for the same reason.
Undo the idiotic nerf to MK103 HVAP for its shell penetration so it has its correct 95mm flat. Undo the nerf from 1.57 where its incendiary ability was nerfed 16-fold. Give the Kugel its full HVAP belt back. Then it would actually be just fine where it is.
This is the same problem as the Gepard SAPHEI - its a tiny armor seam between the upper portion of its side hull plate and the inward-sloping part of the hull underside that is only 30mm thick at a steep angle. There is a thin seam between those two the rounds slip in through - only modelling the entire IS-4M hull as one volumetric piece stands any chance of fixing this.
The ZSU-57 already has inflated costs, so honestly why not. Could be a global change for all SPAAGs honestly. Undo all old nerfs to their antitank ability but tax them with higher SP costs. Or just make their default SP costs equal to medium tanks - I never understood why they were so low to begin with.
I am completely against all hard-caps on any ammo type, and think the limits on APDS hurt SPAAGs more than help them. It’s just a lame excuse not to do the real work needed to fix volumetric.
As someone who is enjoying using the tank - I don’t understand why it is being gatekept at all. I was firmly against their removal in the first place.
And yet with how current gameplay works, I see the only real long-term solution is to make them anti-everything vehicles…like IFVs already are and people are so used to that nobody bats an eye at anymore. I see it as blatantly hypocritical for anyone of sound mind to allow IFVs to run amok while crying foul about SPAAG.
Hence, since I don’t want to see IFVs get shafted, even though I don’t play them much if at all, I say the game needs to pivot and fully embrace tankbusting SPAAGs, going so far as to intentionally encourage it.
Because this is the secret the whiners don’t want to tell you about - the only way to be “effective” in an SPAAG, especially a non-radar one, REQUIRES you go anti-tank simply in order to get to a useful position on the map to then surprise and intercept CAS from.
All vehicles are in many cases being used outside of their intended role. Also my earlier point about allowing IFVs to go ape but crying about SPAAGs still stands. You prove that very point clearly.
We don’t go use the “but it was only used this way IRL” as a justification to neuter any other vehicle class, so why go out of our way to punish SPAAG?
Why not instead fix the things that SPAAG happen to be good at exploiting? Urban shoebox maps enabling them to routinely get close enough to make their relatively low-pen guns shred tanks. The game still having non-volumetric armor models on most of its tanks. Overperforming APHE postpen. Cupola and MG port shots being total unrealistic BS the game allows. Fix that, don’t punish SPAAGs.
I would be shocked if it doesn’t go much higher still.
What on Earth is THAT?
Yeah.
Hate to break it to you collectors/Old Guard/Veteran players
Even if it’s a removed, rare vehicle or one of your favourites to play, I do not foresee it staying at 6.3 until the next planned BR monthly change, at least not with the new belt for very long.
It’s simply way too effective at 6.3 at both anti-tank/plane. (Those FlaK 37 mm are shredding even some heavy tanks from the front).
It’s similar to the U.S. XM246 fiasco again, whilst being quite armoured (for an SPAA at least) against most plane and tank machine guns, with very quick-firing autocannons with high penetration being able to instantly disable or kill literally anything it sees unless it gets spotted or shot at first.
The turret is where enemy players should 100% be aiming at first when they see the Coelian, but its 42*~ 60* (aced) degree per second turret traverse rate makes this quite unlikely to happen, especially if newer players haven’t encountered or had much experience against it since it was removed from the tech tree without the APHE belt. Experienced Coelian players can also use the third-person view advantage in close combat scenarios well since the autocannons don’t require much aim at close range.
The Panther chassis also allows the gun(s) to be somewhat level and stabilized to shoot while on while on the move quickly and flank well with good mobility.
It makes absolute zero sense for it to still remain at 6.3 while the Kugelblitz is at 7.0 being worse in every way.
7 Likes
Did the Gaijin even test this? What made them think this would be acceptable?
NERF IT NOW.
1 Like
I don’t understand why SPAA get rounds like APHE anyway, especially belts of them. APDS I understand - it’s a lower damage but much faster projectile that can be useful against aircraft - but APHE generally overpens aircraft and results in SPAAs roleplaying as tank destroyers, neglecting fighting aircraft, and it just leads to them being balanced around statistics measuring their capability to destroy tanks, not aircraft.
Give them belts appropriate for dealing with aircraft and some basic self-defence. Track and barrel torture is good enough, they don’t need to be able to frontally pen well-armoured tanks too, that’s the job of all the other tanks on their team.
2 Likes
Because Germans historically used APHE’s to deal with aircraft? Of course there is Minengeschoß as well but FlaK 18 or 36 cannons used APHE as standard round. 8.8cm K.w.k is straight made based on this flak cannons
Needs a massive nerf ASAP