Speaking of the Panther II I wish they updated the model to what it would’ve actually been IRL.
In some cases, sure. I think Coelian can be dealt with as long as you are aware of its presence.
However, in other situations (just like with any tank), Coelian presence may not be known and can cause much greater havoc with little to no effort than most tanks.
It seems to be similar issue with 35mm APHE SPAAs like Gepard, ZA-35, XM246 etc, as well as APDS autocannon IFVs (though I’d say they’re less problematic due to the fact that most can’t frontally kill MBTs with their gun alone).
For sure, though I’d say that SPAA is far less effective than the Coelian, even though it has better mobility.
240 RPM 93mm pen AP with the ability to flank and run away is definitely not as good as 500 RPM 87mm pen APHE with ~30g of TNT equiv and the ability to smoke / survive shots, at least in most contexts.
If you’re talking about the Coelian, yes it’s APHE.
But he was talking the Leopard 40/70, which is AP.
I think that could definitely help with the small-caliber APHE problem, but this would also indirectly affect other things, which may not be a good thing. Certain counters rely on cupola shots, for example.
U mean that one with old Panther’s turret which USA placed on Panther II hull?
From what I’ve read the Panther II project simply featured an up-armored hull, the turret would’ve been kept the same. The Schmalturm (Panther F) and 8.8 cm Panther were separate projects.
The Schmalturm was physically unable to mount a 8.8 cm, there was no space for it.
Reading error on my part. No caffeine yet. Noted.
Nerfing all APHE to realistic behavior would change the game yes, and for the better. Armor would have more importance, and the BRs would change accordingly, but it would be healthy for the game just to name a few things.
Naturally though, the CoD-heads and lacking players would scream bloody murder and even though it’s not that much work Gaijin has made it clear it’s just too much work for their slob minds.
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Yeah, I can see it being generally a good thing,
Though time-to-kill for a lot of APHE slingers (especially American / Russian) will definitely decrease, probably requiring more two/three - shot kills.
Their effectiveness may decrease and thus result in a lower BR (which is understandable).
However, I can see some issues here.
The Jumbo 75 largely relies on side-shots / cupola snipes, and so if we effectively give it glorified AP and move it down to 5.3 or 5.0, it may be too good in downtiers, and effectively unusable in full uptiers.
Ultra-Survivable tanks (large crew compartments which often makes it difficult to kill in a couple shots) may become even more tanky too as a result.
Fhis thing would be awasome to have in my Maus line-up. Too bad I don’t have it 🙃
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Not only did you have to play War Thunder before ~2019 to get the Coelian, but you had to play Germany too.
Unfortunately I only played USA, Britain, and USSR, which had no such vehicles 😔
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It was all a setup. Randomly giving a no longer obtainable spaa really good AP rounds to move it up to 7.0
TO then finally move the Kugeblitz down in BR at the same time? They could’ve done that at any time, but no. This all feels pre meditated.
Now you no longer have the good SPAA to go with you 6.7 lineup
The Kugelblitz itself isn’t even armored enough to tank rocket blasts that land next too it.
It’s an SPAA, not a tank destroyer.
I think the (un)surprising anti-tank capabilities of the Coelian after the buff made Gaijin reconsider why they put the Kugelblitz at 7.0 (probably because of its supposed great anti-tank capabilities)
Imho Kugel is 6.3 material. The Zerstorer 45 is 6.0 with 4 barrels and same pen, but zero protection. Two barreled Kugel with more protection could have been 6.3. Especially compared to some of the other high pen AAs, Leopard, the Czech one etc.
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Yeah, I could see that being reasonable.
It’s whatever the hell i want it to be. TD/SPAA it is. I don’t have a 6.7 lineup, btw, I have a 7.0 lineup. And you just got another SPAA for 6.7, if you’d care to read the patch notes.
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They implemented the BR changes.
thats not correct friend. there is no way a shell which lacks penetration power makes it through the armour without abusing armour holes. if not this, then it uses the overpressure bug. this often takes place BECAUSE of the spamming of said shells which, in recent times i have come to theorise, overloads the CPU computations and causes a mistake in which the overpressure penetrates into the target.
youre asking for intentional and distinct ahistorical changes in a game which, abliet inconsistently, prioritises historical accuracy. i for one, will never support ahistorical changes that go against clear data.
The Jumbo 75 was prior at a BR with strong survivability, but limited lethality yet got uptiered into near-obsolescence. An APHE rework would allow it to be re-tiered properly where it would have effective armor wiithout being toothless. The same would go for other tanks like the Churchill.
Tanks with large and spacious crew compartments should be more " tanky " - They were designed that way for crew comfort and crew survivability in the event of a penetrating hit, after all.
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INCREASE The pen. Actually.
I think we can both agree that when we mean ‘armour holes’, we mean unintended gaps in armour.
87mm of penetration is enough to go through most cupolas and thus kill the enemy tank, which doesn’t require armour holes to exist.
If the cupola is too small / can’t be penetrated, you can instead sometimes (even by accident) ricochet off of the mantlet and, instead, penetrate the roof armour of most tanks.
Spoiler
Or even shoot at slightly less-angled roof weakspots / weakspots in general:
This isn’t true since for overpressure mechanic to exist, the shell needs at least ~170g of TNT equivalence. The PzGr shells of the Coelian only has 37.4g.
What is (was) actually going on is that APHE / SAPHE shells have a bug where if the enemy reverses, the shells magically go through armour.
This is different to the overpressure bug that was going on some time ago (especially with the M247), which in that case your explanation is good.
M247’s SAPHEI / HE shells have 262g and 192g of TNT equivalence respectively, which is more than enough for overpressure to occur if it somehow penetrates (which is what the bug back then caused).
Spoiler
I mean, I get your position. If you care about accuracy then those two ways of reducing the problem isn’t feasible.
However, I think (for the balance of the game) it is worth it.
There are a bunch of historical inaccuracies that haven’t been implemented into the game for valid gameplay reasons.
I can give you a few good examples (at least in my opinion). Each tank sight in war thunder is the same, other than FOV and zoom. In reality, they would have differences in qualities, especially between opitcal sights and digital cameras. Cold War Gen 1 thermals also only had fixed color palette (like on M60 TTS and early M1 variants), but in-game you can switch it to black-white, or red-white if the player prefers it.
Commander also does not open their hatch to use their binoculars, meaning that your binoculars are effectively floating in mid-air while you use it. However, players in-game would probably complain about their commander always dying when they use the mechanic.
Most top-mounted machine guns also don’t have any operator in-game, unlike in real life.
If you had to open your hatch to use those MGs, I believe people would use them much less often.
Should we fix all these changes for ‘historical accuracy’?
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Yeah, it could probably go as low as 4.7, great armour but glorified 106mm pen AP at 4.7 isn’t that great to be honest.
I mean just look at the Churchill Mk VII. 😅
Of course, the Jumbo is at least fast enough to get into some flanking positions, so I doubt it would be as bad as that Churchill.
Probably 5.0 / 5.3 to be honest with you.
Not sure what you mean here.
If you’re talking about the APHE Churchill (NA75), then yes it could change, but I think APHE slingers would move around in BR, and not the AP slingers… unless its surrounding had been changed so drastically by the APHE nerf.
I understand that, but I think APHE nerfs would make them even more survivable. (A buff to the vehicles where it may not have been necessary)
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