Flakpanzer 341

[LZXI]

I just had a match today where I got frontally penned by a Flakpanzer 341 while I was in the T95. I clipped it here: medal.tv WT Clip

idk what they did to mess things up this bad, but this is horrendous.

[AlanHR]

This is some SF s**t. It looks like shell just phased through your armor.

[エンジー]

Nerf that shat NOW GAIJIN

[Ckasaron]

@QTip_44

Hold on … you want the ammunition to be accurately reflected as per “real world”, but not the amount they can carry?

Talk about having your cake and eating it too.

How do you KNOW there is not physical/mechanical reason they historically don’t carry more of the AP ammo.

Reading lots of prior discussions on the topic here and on the Reddit which have surprisingly quite a bit of information.

@QTip_44

And the other reason they should not be carrying more… balance, and the fact they were not designed for that purpose.

Preventing SPAAG from killing tanks is not “balance” unless you also castrate autocannon light tanks the exact same way. Anything else beyond full empowerment of SPAAG tankbusting makes you and every other “nerf SPAAG” person look like a hypocrite.

[Ckasaron]

@QTip_44

There’s no need for every vehicle to be able to destroy every other vehicle.

The crybabies who call any heavy tank they cannot frontally pen or disable frontally with the weakest possible gun in a fully uptiered Jumbo would like to have multiple Ph.D. dissertations’ worth of yelling at you.

[Ckasaron]

@RiverStyx0420

You can’t force other players to play the way you want. You also shouldn’t get mad at them for not playing into your fantasy. At the end of the day, people play how they want, just like how you do, so punishing them because they break your immersion is just plain idiotic.

And the current gameplay frankly forces SPAAGs to Pseudo-IFV if they want to actually be effective. Especially if they don’t have radars.

In order to hit planes with non-radar AA the planes gotta come to you or be stupidly flying low and slow overhead. Which means either you go to/near caps and kill some tanks to get there, or you get swarmed in your own spawn after the round is already lost.

@Thodin

Well top speed isn’t stellar, either. Its a governed Panther. For an SPAA its slow.

Yeah, all governed Panthers make me die a little inside, as I remember how fun flying around the map in the Jagdpanther pre-governed nerf was. It was my go-to for uptiers and still is one of my most-played vehicles years later.

@MythicPi

Fun fact about this;

Way back in the old days, the Coelian used to be above the Kugelblitz, prior to gaijin nerfing the Coelian into the ground. Coelian was 6.7/7,0 and kugel was 6.3/6.7 (cant remember exactly). Following the Coelians nerf, it started performing so badly that it was dropped down to 6.3, and gaijin flipped their spots in the TT cuz it made no sense researching the better SPAA first. Later on, players started whining that the Kugelblitz was too strong, so gaijn went and nerfed it into the ground to placate those players, leaving it in the state it is today.

So all in all, we’ve basely gone full circle, almost a whole decade later. Players have always cried about german AA being “too strong” and it has always had a significant impact on the actual capabilities depicted in-game unfortunately.

I remember that, funny enough. Also the entire game badly needs a restorative postpen buff for all APCR/HVAP rounds. MK103 HVAP separately was further nerfed in postpen 16-fold back in 2016 due to whining about the Horton 229 before radar AAs existed to reliably swat it down. Years later when we have radar AAs for everybody, if not multiple for everybody, the latter old nerf hasn’t been undone. And then long after it was already dead, then the pen of the HVAP was even further shafted from 95 to 77mm.

@PercussionCap

The SIDAM is different as it should have separate magazines attached to each gun for the self defense magazine, but I don’t know if there is anything physically stopping APDS shells from being loaded to the main magazines.

Exactly. At best it’s just doctrine which has no bearing on the game because no vehicle is being used according to its doctrine most matches.

@Danzig A1

I remember the days of the wirbelwind being a really good TD before the pen nerf, fun times. They should bring that back

That too is something that must return. If the Flakpanzer 1, Flakpanzer 38 Gepard, Sd.Kfz. 140/1, Panzer II Cs, Panzer II F, and Sd.Kfz 240/1 all become seal clubbers - move up their BRs, don’t nerf the guns to force them to be at their current BRs!

@YaSen

As for APDS fitting into the main belt idk, the manual (which is publically available and on which devs based the model) tells about 30 HEI + 600 APDS, but it can be not a physical restriction, but a doctrine one.

Thank you for this - I highly suspected it was a doctrine thing.

[QTip_44]

@Ckasaron

Preventing SPAAG from killing tanks is not “balance” unless you also castrate autocannon light tanks the exact same way. Anything else beyond full empowerment of SPAAG tankbusting makes you and every other “nerf SPAAG” person look like a hypocrite.

Two wrongs don’t make a right.
And not sure you fully understand the meaning of hypocrite as I have in no way campaigned for light tanks/IFVs to have tank-busting either. In the immortal words of Inigo Montoya, “You keep using that word. I don’t think it means what you think it does.”

Just finished an arcade battle, where light-skinned vehicles are at somewhat of a disadvantage because of lack of proper fog-of-war.

Battle was 5.7-6.7 (I was fully uptiered OF COURSE) and we had a 341 on our side. it pretty much single-handedly demolished the other side with 15 kills before he took a break saying he’d leave some for us.

Now some of those kills were easier targets like m51 and m109, but… there were also Tigers and Jumbos in there. The point is, it was ridiculously easy for the 341 to wipe out the other team.

341 is “broken” and any and all players with that “gift” vehicle in their garage will be running amok for the near future.

[Ckasaron]

@QTip_44

And not sure you fully understand the meaning of hypocrite as I have in no way campaigned for light tanks/IFVs to have tank-busting either. In the immortal words of Inigo Montoya, “You keep using that word. I don’t think it means what you think it does.”

Hypocrite AFAIK means in this context crying foul about something you yourself are using/doing. So many people complain about SPAAG going TD mode but don’t complain about autocannon IFVs nearly as much, if at all. THAT is what I see as hypocritical - you apply one set of standards to one vehicle type and another to a different class that really isn’t that damn different.

How most people don’t cry foul about all the autocannon IFVs in the exact same way is beyond me.

And if “hypocrisy” isn’t the correct word, then what is?

@QTip_44

Just finished an arcade battle, where light-skinned vehicles are at somewhat of a disadvantage because of lack of proper fog-of-war.

Arcade is a mess regardless, but w/e.

@QTip_44

Battle was 5.7-6.7 (I was fully uptiered OF COURSE) and we had a 341 on our side. it pretty much single-handedly demolished the other side with 15 kills before he took a break saying he’d leave some for us.

Because of obvious bugs/stupid game features that enable it to shred stuff it shouldn’t, yes. APHE in general enabling cupola shots nuking whole tanks. MG ports being weakspots at all plus nuke APHE. WT still not having fully volumetric armor models on all tanks years after introducing the system. And then add on top of all that the known obvious bugs from either overwhelming the server calculations or tanks moving backward desyncing shells through their armor, both also exacerbated by nuke APHE.

@QTip_44

341 is “broken” and any and all players with that “gift” vehicle in their garage will be running amok for the near future.

And I will enjoy every minute of salty whiner tears, personally. I hope such people are told to cry themselves to sleep and then grow a set. Hell, it sure felt like most people were already doing so in RB matches over the weekend. But I guess arcade’s crowd is different.

[QTip_44]

@Ckasaron

Hypocrite AFAIK means in this context crying foul about something you yourself are using/doing. So many people complain about SPAAG going TD mode but don’t complain about autocannon IFVs nearly as much, if at all. THAT is what I see as hypocritical - you apply one set of standards to one vehicle type and another to a different class that really isn’t that damn different.

How most people don’t cry foul about all the autocannon IFVs in the exact same way is beyond me.

And if “hypocrisy” isn’t the correct word, then what is?

So explain exactly how I am a hypocrite.
Hypocrites would be players who are both exploiting the OP AFVs autocannons AND crying fould about spaa AP ammo. But you’d have to be sure both things are true to label someone a hypocrite.

And the word you might be looking for SOME people could be indifferent.

[Ckasaron]

@QTip_44

Hypocrites would be players who are both exploiting the OP AFVs autocannons AND crying fould about spaa AP ammo. But you’d have to be sure both things are true to label someone a hypocrite.

And the word you might be looking for SOME people could be indifferent.

I see no difference between autocannon SPAAGs and autocannon light tanks/IFVs - why do people complain about the former but not the latter (at least not nearly as much), despite the light tank/IFVs being better in most respects. Faster, lower profiles, most have optional ATGMs, scouting, and more.

Anyone who doesn’t put out just as much hate for light tanks & IFVs as they do for SPAAG is a hypocrite in my book. Both buzzsaw tanks with autocannons - what difference does it make if one is technically meant to kill planes/helicopters? You are dead the exact same way.

By not complaining about the IFV/light tank plague anywhere near as much as you do SPAAG, that sure seems awfully hypocritical. Double-standards.

[QTip_44]

You have tunnel vision and my sympathies.

[RiverStyx0420]

@Ckasaron

And the current gameplay frankly forces SPAAGs to Pseudo-IFV if they want to actually be effective. Especially if they don’t have radars.

Nobody is making you play like an IFV, you just want to get kills and can’t shoot down aircraft to do so. You are not being forced to go after tanks in a non-self-defense scenario; you are just greedy for kills.

[LZXI]

Yeah the Flakpanzer 341 going straight through 305mm of armor. Gotta love it

[NoreZi]

@NoreZi

In next 5 years there is a chance xD

That’s was faster than I expected

[KillaKiwi]

Same

[Ckasaron]

And how is wanting to get kills a bad thing when there’s literally no way else to earn decent RP and SL when using an SPAAG? Making a plane break off an attack run that would’ve killed a teammate sure helps that teammate but doesn’t pay you even 1 SL. Hell, some SPAAGs don’t even have their useful anti-air rounds until after a hefty module grind.

Again, looks like a serious double-standard aimed against SPAAG simply because they’re SPAAG.

Light tanks and IFVs with autocannons are smaller, faster, have scouting, have drones, often have additional weaponry, and nobody seems to care anymore.

SPAAG being effective tank-killers means people bother spawning them early game, and thus they are actually present when the first wave of CAS shows up and can at least try to swat it down - is that NOT what all the perpetual CAS haters want?

You cannot seriously expect people to play, let alone play long enough to become good at using, a vehicle class which is nothing more than tank target practice and also entirely depends on enemy plane stupidity to actually hit them prior to acquiring radars.

If the community at large seems to more or less have accepted the light tank/IFV plague and accepted bombers being reduced to worthless junk in Air RB, then eventually those same people can and will accept SPAAG going Ersatz-TD mode. Are there not bigger problems to focus on, such as the overall dumb CoD powerup nature of CAS?

[Armen_Lozone]

Its a bug.
If you or target move in a certain direction…
All armour stops existing.

[Ckasaron]

Yup, I wonder how much complaining about the 341 will be left once this weird bug is dealt with.

[Armen_Lozone]

People will ofcourse find reasons to complain.
Most of them are stupid.
But there are still many with genuine reasons.

Overpressure and armour holes also contribute to this flakpanzer issue.

[TheDudesRug]

@Ckasaron

And I will enjoy every minute of salty whiner tears, personally.

I’ll say - world’s smallest violin for people in vehicles that should rightfully be nuked by a 341 (M18, M-51, heavy tanks from the side, and so on). I’m glad those individuals are whining, means the 341 is doing its new found job.

Let this be a wake up call to US and other allied mains at this BR: There is a new Sheriff in town, the Flakpanzer 341, and he doesn’t like you playing your silly little flanker tanks and then jumping straight in CAS.