Can we have it nerfed into the ground please, im 7.0 and i wanna play some war thunder and not get insta killed by some guy in a vehicle you can’t get anymore with more pen than APDS from bradleys
Remember, though, global deaths in Ground RB are statistically from another ground vehicle 80-90% of the time. So having a lot of ground kills in a gun SPAAG means the user is good at using it in that role and thus can actually reach relevant positions to then get the jump on CAS.
And this is why I frankly think every SPAAG physically capable of being such should be intentionally tiered as such. Those which have gone up too badly (ZSD63 for example) aught to come back down to where in a comparable sense they are just as potent.
I personally hope all the removed vehicles get brought back, as someone who owns and uses all four. All four should be annual events just like the Maus already is.
5 Likes
That summaries the root of the problem quite well imo, and it’s a gameplay challenge with all the 30mm/35mm APHE SPAA. When a spammed, hi-repetition attack has a much higher kill expectation by design, even on the heavily armored targets, gameplay balance gets pretty heavily distorted in the favor of the spammers. And that’s the root of it, this is all about gameplay.
3 Likes
Put up links to your reports when they are up. You might want to re-report some of these:
Actually, it is a Panther F hull in-game, as it obviously should be, since the production of the D had ended almost a year before. Or in other words, you wouldn’t see a Wirbelwind, Ostwind, or Kugelblitz utilizing a Panzer IV Ausf. A chassis:
That is strictly a ‘gaijin bug’ since they biasedly & inexplicably went out of their way to create a fake 3 cm Möbelwagen instead of giving us a proper production Zerstörer 45
8 Likes
It’s worth putting this out here
The true Panther f hull doesn’t really exist in game
The Panther f hull had extra armour on the hull roof which isn’t modeled sadly.
3 Likes
Someone did bug report that years ago but nothing happened:
6 Likes
Yes, about how you’re using your heavy vehicles incorrectly. I’m fine with you guys venting, but a lot of you simply don’t understand heavy tanks and how their armour isn’t universal, and how they will keep dying regardless of when any reverse bug is fixed if the player thinks being a heavy tank makes them immune to autocannon fire. If you have a 120mm with a lengthy reload, you need to play with that in mind.
What we need is for discourse about actual problems to take the lead. Actual bugs. Not discourse from people trying to charge the battlefield in their T34, T29 and such. Because let’s face it, for every heavy tank dying from the ‘reverse bug’ there are many more who have simply driven themselves into a situation where they’ve exposed all their weak spots.
Anyway, the spam has already decreased from what I’ve seen, since 341 players can bring out their KT 10.5. When it was 6.3, you’d never reach for something like a Jpz4-5 as first spawn, regardless of map.
100%. I’d love to have more people in 341 so they can see both the good and weak sides of the vehicle, because right now we’re only seeing the vehicle in the hands of experienced players.
3 Likes
Just my personal player experience :
since not so long ago, i was meeting in battles Flakpanzers 341 like E-100 : almost never
Comes the update : suddenly i see them at almost every game when i use my 7.0 US lineup
The APHE rounds ? OK it’s fine for me : yes the 341 can shred me to pieces, it’s sometimes boring but it’s one between many tanks who can do this so i’m used to die (normal in WT)
My issue is that several times (not once) i managed to be on the side or behind a 341… shooted… and nothing… shooted again… nothing : that thing was going like nothing happened to him : once it received like 5 rounds from me…
I don’t pretend to be a ultra skilled player but i just notice i can easily one shot Tigers II, Panthers, IS1 - 2 - 3, etc… & the same tanks / rounds from my lineup can’t do anything to a SPAA ??? : because the 341 wasn’t made of stalinium : it was penned everytime : i believed i missed the weak spots because i’m not used to meet 341s so i tried to shoot everywhere, in the hull, the turret : it was penned, penned but no damage…
so according to me, the problem isn’t the rounds or the BR : i’m used to deal with such things everyday playing WT… but i guess as this tank was removed some time ago, the modelizing wasn’t upgraded like the others and it’s just a shell with empty space inside…
So Gaijin should either remove the APHE rounds & 341s will go back to sleep in the basement where they were before the update or update the modelizing of the internal parts, just like the actual other tanks in order to be more fair… because BR 7.0 sucks now because of 341s
Nerfing APHE seems to be the most sensible thing to do.
I mean boi, the damage from 37mm AP and APHE is just miles appart.
The larger AP gets the better it performs to APHE because as penetration increases, so does spall damage.
So side shots become a lot more deadly with large caliber AP.
But a single 37mm APHE will just cause the same damage as a 120mm AP to the crew.
Nuking an entire crew with a single 37mm penetration is just non sense.
Just give up. It has had its nerf. Go worry about some other issues.
1 Like
It also had its buff regardless whether it was going to be changed or not.
I’ve quite enjoyed the buff, indeed. Anyway, if this is going to be the 341 cope/support topic - I’m going to step away. Gaijin knows people like these autocannon spammers, they’re not going anywhere. I’m all for fixing any current bugs around internal modules, APHE, armour, but I’m not for any complaining because a vehicle, that many people here don’t have access to, is suddenly fun and popular again. Or those people who get mad because an SPAA is being used to kill tanks. Aight time to go play Germany 7.0.
2 Likes
A normal handgranade has around 60g of tnt. The corelian shell has 37g of tnt but in a confined space. It’s realistic that the tank crew will be killed or badly hurt depending on the tank. Especially in Soviet tanks, that are less spacious than US and german tanks
I rather think that some shells should do way more damage. APCR should be much better that it is actually worth using.
2 Likes
You can’t compare a 37mm APHE shell (~800g, 22g filler) that penetrates armor at +800m/s to a hand grenade (600g, 52g filler) that statically detonates inside a tank.
And this is not even touching the part about where the projectile detonated inside the tank.
One is designed to pierce armor, the other is made for maximum fragmentation performance.
One has a fuze that is acts with a time delay and is activated before use, the other uses an inertia based fuze that is supposed to act on impact but with enough delay to have the round detonate behind the plate.
If a 37mm explodes inside a commanders cupola that certainly isn’t going to kill the entire turret crew.
And if a 37mm penetrates 50mm of armor at even the smallest impact angle, it’s going to complete break up the shell in the process, leaving nothing but shell fragments on the other side of the plate.
Increasing velocity doesn’t automatically increase the shells penetration when the shell already reaches the limit of what it can endure on impact.
Especially true in case of APHE, which is already structurally weakened.
WT APHE system is just completely broken, with some small caliber APHE shells dealing very weak damage while others are complete nukes for no reason.
Italian 47mm APHE is a one shot nuke but that basically balances how bad Italian WW2 tanks would be without that ability.
That’s a 1.5kg shell with 30g TNT that kills crews the same as 88mm APHE with 10.2kg and 109g of TNT equivalent.
2 Likes
“The Flakpanzer 341, or Coelian, was designed to be mounted on a standard Panther tank chassis, specifically the Ausf. G model. A wooden mock-up turret was built and placed on a Panther Ausf. D chassis for demonstration, but production versions would have used the more current Ausf. G version.”
“Why do i get bombed” Bros line up:
This is the most devious line up we got the flankpanzer the made up panther the Nuke cannon Tiger II and the Tsar Bomba lauchers and a rat
1 Like
While some things you said are generally true, you’re severly underestimating the effect of such rounds even after penetrating thick platings.
Here are some examples of the effect of a 35 mm Oerlikon APHEI-T round (type: PLD and PSHB/B);
15 mm RHA, 30°, 1000m
6 sheets of 4 mm “avional”, spacing: 100 mm between each
(1968 brochure)
Here’s your 50mm plate, doesnt look like it struggled, now does it?
Images are from 1968 and 1980 Oerlikon brochures.
1 Like
Funny enough, realistic APHE would just be outright bad due to the fuse failing all the time. Especially against angled armor. It’d be identical to solid shot most of the time but in some cases slightly better.
Should also be noted that APHE overpressure is wildly overtuned. The explosive first has to overcome the thick walled cavity it’s confined to before increasing pressure in the fighting compartment. That’ll take a decent amount of energy from the detonation. Should require a pretty huge shell with a lot of filler (like 127mm to 155mm or larger) to enable APHE overpressure.
1 Like
I’m talking about the shell, not the armor.
If you want your shell to be in any condition to explode the explosive cavity needs to stay intact or explosive and detonator will get separated.
They shot the plate at 0° impact. Which is the ideal scenario for the shell. Any slight angle and the shell will start to break appart.
Against highly sloped armor the striker will simply jam itself in place, due to the forces pushing the shell away from the direction of flight, instead of moving forward into the detonator, so also no effect behind the armor.
1 Like
Yeah, this is even noticeable in the blast damage of aircraft shells.
I compared the destruction power of different shells against aircraft wings and Mineshells cause more structural damage compared to thicker walled explosives shells.