If anything, all SPAA should be buffed up to the 341’s level.
A well played SPAA should have the advantage over a CAS player of similar skill, all other factors being even. That’s just good game design. As a reminder, SPAA acts as a catchup mechanic. It allows a player who’s unable to spawn conventional tanks a way to get back into the game, by targeting enemy players who have done well and taxing them the SP they used to spawn in an aircraft. This is a sizable momentum shift, and can even knock some enemy players out of the game if you catch them before they drop.
It’s also the one thing preventing a team that gets an early lead from running away with the game due to chain CAS. Especially against the more effective CAS options that can score 3+ kills per run if uncontested. Allowing teams to snowball an SP lead into a series of free, uncounterable kills just further snowballs the game and dooms the losing team.
The 341 isn’t even that OP. It’s definitely the strongest at the tier, but it’s hardly a no-fly zone. Good defensive flying can exploit the mediocre burst mass and allow you a bombing run. Or you can stay away from him. The same tactics that make you safe against every other AA, which is to stay high, stay fast, and stay manuevering, all work just as well against a 341. It’s literally just an Ostwind II that can’t be strafed out. That’s it.
HaHa I do the same , its so much fun. Or just act like a normal tank while tracking them with your guns, when the get close and cant escape spread em across the map
Of course AAs act as a catchup mechanic like you have said, but if the game changes into the situation what you have described, all planes should have a similar spawn point as tanks, maybe 150 or 200. The problem is AAs can kill planes easily trading spawn points in a very unfair way.
I also got proof for my words. You should have noticed Gaijin have just buffed WW2 fighters’ loadouts just in this patch, like F8Fs, F4Us, A2D, P-63s and also lot of other props. They certainly do this for some reasons, like usual, Gaijin never do game stat changes for nothing. That is because the AAs have become too powerful these days, and in my opinion, is because players are becoming more and more practised using them.
Warthunder is a complexed game, for players playing diffrent vehicles get very different experience, players plays in different time(2016 2019 2021 2023) get different experience too. Player should always think of if you re fully aware of what is going on in the game, the battle enviornment, other players’ preferences, the player bases’ average skill etc, what makes you play in a clear mind.
Warthunders’ Ground RB’s enviornment and player behaviours have varied over time. For example in 2019, you can see lot of low flight performance twin-engine planes like me410 on the skies, and most players cannot shoot well on both planes and AAs. But when it comes to 2021 and 2022 the amount of these low-performance CAS planes decreased and players’ awareness for getting advantage over skies have raised. By the end of 2022 (around) players’ anti-air skills have increased. I felt it clearly playing a Corsair trying to bomb 2 times safely was easy in 2021 but more risky nowdays. Gaijin surely can see those stats related to efficiency all behind the client, and the change of this patch (buff in bombs) is predictable, no surprise.
Also theres no need doubting my skills flying planes (In the post I see suspicion and I’m simply explaining here). I was in GoldLeague in the last 1v1 dueling event and also ranked in 10 place Ground RB over the server during summer event. My m42 get around KD1 and 48% winrate playing in US 6.3-7.0 queue (thats why the Germany twin 37 mms ends up so easy to handle). I’m sure my skills in both antiair and countering antiairs are better than most of players in this post and in the game.
I wanted to reply you with some analatical words. But what you have said
tells the fact that you scarcity experience on these vehicles. I guess the reason why you thinks in this way its because R3s are more stealthy so you could be easily killed with a sudden burst, while Ostwind players loves firing all time makes their bullets less unexpected.
Moreover I’m really pity for you cannot even realize your scarcity of knowledge of the game and the unreliability of your judgements.
Just survivorship bias, happens in low possibility. You can try attacking a flak341 with hvars and see how many times you can success. Please do not say the words that go against your heart.
Oh no, absolutely not.
Planes are already unreasonably cheap as they are.
You can spawn a plane after getting just a single kill and cap, which is unreasonably easy to do. This is especially the case with light vehicles that lower the spawn cost of aircraft (which is something you could easily utilize if you think aircraft are too expensive).
CAS has several advantages over ground vehicles that make them more expensive.
Firstly, their freedom of movement.
Aircraft are limited by their performance only and are not hindered by buildings, woods, anything at all for their mobility.
A plane can rush to the battlefield immediately or they can flank around the entire visible ground portion of the map to bomb people from behind and they can do this practically unhindered. The only exceptions are if another aircraft intercepts them or if a SAM targets them from a long distance away (which often times they won’t be able to due to range limitations and because maps are hardly ever so flat that aircraft can’t use terrain to their advantage).
Aircraft also force tanks to have a new level of awareness that they otherwise don’t require: they have to start looking up. This doesn’t sound like a big deal, but when taking into account that tanks also have to pay continuous to their direct surroundings, their positioning and potential enemies at long distances that can be hard to spot then this adds it does matter. This is especially the case if the game sounds get bugged or if the aircraft attacks with a disabled engine and doesn’t even make them audible.
And sure, CAS also has to keep tabs on both air and ground, but they have a much easier time because they literally have a top down view on the battlefield and because enemy aircraft air much easier to spot from the air than from the ground. So no, that is not an argument worth using.
Aircraft are also very, VERY advantages when targeting ground targets. CAS doesn’t require a direct hit for a majority of their attacks while being able to engage and disengage much easier than ground vehicles. Nevermind the fact that CAS can engage from angles that are literally unreachable for a great portion of tanks.
Even SPAA are disadvantaged when engaging aircraft. It is much, MUCH easier for a plane to destroy an SPAA than it is the other way around.
CAS shouldn’t be a cheap option that is an easy way to get kills and hardly gets punished when dying.
CAS should be a risky investment that allows you to get easier kills for a higher investment yet should still hold a risk of destroying your SP balance if you get intercepted.
It should by no means get cheaper, let alone get as cheap as ground vehicles.
Absolutely ridiculous.
I use both AA, I find the R3 T20 to be far superior gun wise at actually killing planes. It’s braindead easy to light up anybody with that thing. The 341 requires far more skill in my experience.
Reducing plane SP spawn costs makes it no longer a catchup mechanic AND would drasticly increase the number of CAS planes in the air, overwhelming SPAA players and leading even faster to the CAS snowball I described
They “buffed” WW2 fighter loadouts by switching them to the custom loadout option, something they’re doing for all planes, regardless of it it even makes an impact, which it doesn’t for many (Kikka, early Stukas, etc). They didn’t make this move because CAS was underperforming.
This “buff” would actually make it easier for SPAA to shoot down CAS, as overloaded CAS planes are more sluggish and bleed more speed in manuevers, making it even easier to get the lead correctly.
You still see Me-410s quite commonly, but players switched to higher performance CAS options because they’re higher performance, not because SPAA players have gotten better. In fact, I believe the switch to fighter bomber CAS has less to do with SPAA, and more to do with enemy CAS. Something like a 410 is a sitting duck if you come up against even a P-47 loaded with ordinance, while a 109 stands more of a chance.
You’re talking things that are true but not about the problem. The problem is how much the spawn point number ratio should be set under certain circumstance. Should planes cost more than AAs? Yes. Should plane cost up to 7 or 8 times than AAs? No, its too much, it should be reduced, or planes should be buffed.
2.The result is these planes actually get a big buff in bombing chances, most of them can bomb 2 times->3times, a 50%buff. Also, A2D receives new 4000lbs and get great improvements, you cant attribute it to simply “loadout customize enabled”. Besides for example P-63s can now seperately drop its 500lbs, USSR P-47D-27 and French P-47D-22 (or 23, I forget the exact number) can now seperately drop its 1000lbs, but none of them receive custom loadouts.
3.Ridiculous. Imagine gaijin change planes like AU1 or A1H, into bombing fewer times which make them more nimble, you think it is a buff? The old planes can also play as it in old patch, just dropping 2 bombs at the same time by pressing 2 times space key.
4.I’ve said before the changes, its because the raise in playerbase’s skills and awareness of the game.