Not after the PL-12 nerf.
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Yes, the J-10C has a better radar and a “better” AHR at 14.3. But the countermeasures + far superior flight model make this jet extremely dominant. Especially when you compare it to the J-10C, it has low countermessures, and in terms of maneuverability, compared to the J-10A, it feels like a downgrade.
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How can J10C be stronger than EF2K(14.3). EF2K has more powerful thrust, a better rwr and more countermeasures. But J10C only has a more advanced ESA radar, although it does make an obvious advantage
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I’ll answer them one by one.
“EF2K has more powerful thrust.”
→ However, the EF2K’s flight model is not good enough to maintain that speed effectively. In practice, there are many situations where the J-10C actually has a speed advantage.
“It has a better RWR.”
→ That’s true. However, I feel that radar MAWS generally has better response time, so the difference is probably not significant. I feel that optical MAWS performs better
“It has more countermeasures (chaff/flares).”
→ We also have powerful large CMs. We have enough of them that it is not really an issue.
“It has a more advanced AESA radar.”
→ This is the factor that creates the biggest difference. To be honest, the compatibility between the EF2K’s radar and the AMRAAM is not particularly good. AESA provides an overwhelming advantage in multi-target engagement capability, and the PL-12A’s seeker makes that advantage even stronger.
The PL-12, like the MICA, is a missile whose seeker performance is superior to that of other Western ARH missiles. With this missile, the opponent has to start evading from a position that is about 4 km closer than they would against an AMRAAM. This is also one of the reasons why I feel that the J-10C overwhelmingly outperforms the EF2K.
Please elaborate? Because I just checked, and the EF2000 has more thrust at 100, 5000 and 10000 meters altitude. And the EF still has better energy efficiency,
Against Su-30, F-15C GE, and F/A-18E missile spam 72 CM is not good
I do agree, but I think in BVR the EF2000 would still win. It is still faster with much better acceleration and energy, and the aim 120C-5 is still a “better” BVR missile. And the PL-12A is not that good when it comes to range, the only real advantage is the GNSS, but if you lose lock (by notching or the game bugging) that advantage is gone.
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ive compiled tests of the missile at a variety of conditions with a friend.
high speed, low speed, sea level altitude, 2500 meters altitude 5000meters and 10000 meters
never has the missile reached more than 26-28G
only once did the missile reach 30.1G and that too for barely 0.3-0.5 seconds
here are the replay files
PL-12 manouverability test replays.zip (14.0 MB)
aside from the obvious, there also sems to be an issue with the PL-12 pulling significantly less as soon as it reaches close enough to the target. This range seems to start somewhere around 1.2km from the target.
since apparently a brochure advertising an MRAAM with dogfight capability and 38G overload is not enough, i am asking someone with better knowledge to play their role in this charade.
OEM website for SD-10A stating the exact same thing as the brochures: https://www.avic.com/c/2021-05-08/513082.shtml
it is astounding that a missile with smaller fin area would acheive 30G easily in the same range and comparable speed but the PL-12/SD-10A would fail horribly after the “buff”
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A source better than a brochure?they want us to physicaly bring a PL12 to their doorsteps?..someone needs to review that,no way they dont consider that a source…i feels biased mod in the air…gaijin will only learn when ppl start witch hunting again…
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its so stupid because the source literally states its also a dogfight missile.
during our 2 HOURS of testing we never found the pl-12 to pull its 38Gs for a dogfight NOR a medium range shot
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Yeah,noticed while using it too,they mentioned its “for perfect parameter” i dare any of those protoplasmic slungoids to show what parameters are those,because no one that actually plays the game was able to reach them…
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why are we even trying still they obviously dont give two shits
lets ask them
@Smin1080p_WT
are the devs aware of the performance issues?
are they or do they have plans to fix the PL-12’s, SD-10A’s and PL-12A’s turning performance?
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they are aware and have a “investigation” going on, ive asked smin multiple times already “we are monitoring bug reports” eg was what was answered
atp they really dont care
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Keep your hopes up, Rome wasn’t built in a day
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but burned down in one…
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The way the PL-12 was handled during this test server phase has made one thing abundantly clear:
The reduction in the PL-12’s maneuverability was not a mistake at all—it was a deliberate and intentional adjustment.
The issues related to the PL-12’s drag and warhead type were fixed rather quickly, which shows what Gaijin actually considers to be a “bug”—or rather, the kinds of issues they are willing to compromise on in response to player feedback.
We have repeatedly asked community managers about the PL-12, but our concerns were either brushed aside or simply ignored. This suggests that, in their view, there is nothing wrong with it. The PL-12 is performing exactly as they intend it to, and Gaijin appears committed to what I consider to be a rather absurd and self-righteous “balancing strategy”: nerfing the PL-12 in order to quell the ongoing controversy surrounding the Su-30MKK. (my personal opinion)
Following that line of reasoning, unless the Su-30MKK is moved out of the 13.3 battle rating bracket, I don’t see much chance for the PL-12 to regain its former effectiveness.
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However, I also oppose the idea that we should simply do nothing and wait for Gaijin to one day “graciously” decide to “grant” the PL-12 a buff.
There are many issues in War Thunder that have remained unresolved for two or even three years. We need to keep speaking up and make it clear to Gaijin that this is a matter of significant concern to the player base. Sustained feedback can at least reduce the amount of time they choose to delay addressing it.
The efforts being made to gather documentation and conduct simulation tests are also extremely valuable. Although I believe Gaijin knows no less about the issue than we do—and is simply pretending otherwise—the work done by players can at least help the wider community understand just how unreasonable the PL-12’s current implementation is.
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What are chances when they add a $89.99 premium rank ix J-10CE Pakistan(maybe make a J-10C senrai maidens as well) they see how much money they can make off some people and they’ll buff the range and manoeuvrability of the missiles :>
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Day 20
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