The 8.3 lineup is a lot better than the 8.0 and 7.7 lineups, so I don’t know why this seems to be an issue? The falcon was far too good for 8.0 so 8.3 is fine, and it absolutely isn’t ruining lineups.
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You do realise that there is a wide variety of tanks at 8.3 right? Meaning that you do not need to use your 7.7 vehicles in 8.3?
because the gepard types aren’t routinely being used as TDs, right
- I’m not at the 8.3 lineup (except for the uptiered Falcon) and
- I’m still upgrading some of the vehicles I’m currently using.
You do realize it’s not a “race for the top” of vehicle lineups for everyone right?
Some are comfortable at what they are using, and changes that Gaijin makes does mess up lineups.
The reason Falcon was moved up was because players were complaining their MBTs were being killed by a wimpy little spaa. So maybe, just maybe, Gaijin could tweak the effectiveness of the APHE rounds and leave the vehicle at 8.0, so lineups are not messed with.
But Gaijin doesn’t seem to consider this as they continuously raise the BR of established vehicles forcing players to resort to other vehicles.
Or… reduce the effectiveness of the APHE round. The Falcon is supposed to be an spaa - should not be relying on a god-mode APHE. Problem solved - less complaining from players in MBTs and the vehicle can stay at 8.0. It’s an auto-cannon with no radar for crying out loud.
As for 8.3 lineup - see my post above.
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APDS. And no, we should not cater to cry baby MBT players.
Lineups are constantly changing. Many of my favourite lineups are no more. You have to adapt, make new ones, try new things, it’s all part of what makes War Thunder - War Thunder.
So remove a historical function so it can become one of the worst spaa’s in the game?
I was referring to the belt - but yes, there are apds in that belt.
If you read my posts you’ll know I don’t have an 8.3 line-up. my 8.0 lineup is still going through upgrades.
So until I research the 8.3 tanks, I’m stuck uptiering my current lineup, dropping the Falcon for now and having no spaa or… replacing Falcon with skink - none of those options are really palatable. And yes gaijin screwed my French lineup when they uptiered a bunch of tanks.
But you’ve kinda skipped the point I was making. The uptiering of Falcon was not needed. All Gaijin has to do is tweak the ammo. They tweak vehicle mechanics all the time.
Because WT is all about being “historical”. LOLOLOL
Whats your point? It doesn’t detract from what I said.
Of course it does.
“Historical” has nothing to do with this game.
- there are prototypes that can be played that were never actually finished (Maus, Panther 2, etc)
- A bunch of vehicles in country line-ups that were never used by those countries
- And then there’s WW2 vehicles fighting against vehicles developed many, many years after the WW2 vehicles were not in use.
WT plays fast and loose with history to make the game playable.
For you to object to tweaking the ammo of an spaa (THAT NEVER WENT INTO PRODUCTION) is somewhat disingenuous. And how the heck would lowering pen of the Falcon’s APDS make it “one of the worst spaa’s in the game”?
So hold on, you are crying because you have not unlocked the vehicles yet? Why would you play a significantly higher vehicle if you don’t have supporting vehicles? This is not how lineups are supposed to work.
The increase in br was absolutely needed. A vehicle is balanced by its capabilities, not the lineup it sits in. It should also never be balanced by lineups. The falcon is still very good at 8.3 and extremely playable, so I don’t really know what your argument is except “waaaahhh my 8.0 lineup doesn’t have a falcon now”. If you really want an spaa, use the ystervark or bosvark. They are more effective against jets than the skink.
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So hold on - you responded after reading just 1 of my posts on the subject?
I didn’t “play a significantly higher vehicle and not have supporting vehicles”.
At the time I acquired the Falcon at 8.0 it slotted into my existing lineup of 7.7 + 8.0 + 8.0 + 7.7
Since we get uptiered 75% of the time, my 7.7 vehicles were often pitted against 8.7 and 9.0 vehicles, but they were still useful. But now with Falcon going to 8.3 the gap for those vehicles is even wider. NOW you understand?
And no - the Falcon did not have to go up in BR.
First of all, enemy armor is not getting any thicker at 8.3, so it will still “shred” all those moderately armored enemies.
Secondly the issue could have been corrected by tweaking the apds ammo, or limiting the amount of apds ammo that can be carried just like the Gepard.
Thirdly having 2 spaa at exactly 8.3 is silly considering the now even larger gap from 5.3 to 8.3
As for using… the what… 5.3 BR Bosvark? It has max turret rotation of 60 which would not do well against fast-flying jets. And it would be easily outranged by the helicopters with 2km ranged AGTMs.
I read all of your relevant posts here. Once again, it doesn’t matter if it slotted into your 8.0 lineup. It was too good for 8.0, and thus moved up in br, as happens most other vehicles that are too good at a certain br. The gap also does not matter, as it DOES NOT IMPACT A VEHICLES CAPABILITIES. Once again, a vehicle is balanced off of its capabilities and statistics, NOT the lineups it is in or the gap it opens up.
Why exactly is having 2 spaa at 8.3 an issue? One is far better against aircraft due to having radar, and the other is an extremely effective pseudo light tank. I am not exactly sure where the issue lies here.
On your spaa choice, both the bosvark and ystervark are better against jets than the skink dueto having very comparable (for the bosvark, which has exactly three degrees less horizontal traverse than the skink) or slightly worse yet still quick (ystervark which has about 75% of the horizontal traverse of the skink) gun handling, while having MUCH higher round velocities to deal better with faster-flying jets. Your argument about being outranged by helis is incorrect as the 23 mm Bosvark shells either despawn at the same range or further than the skink, and the ystervark’s rounds despawn at the same range due to being the same calibre.
Falcon is an abandoned project: A one unit prototype. There is no historical function.
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You need to read my post again. I’m not comparing the lower BR vehicles vs each other wrt jets.
“outranged” by the CAS. Both the skink and the bosvark would be easy fodder to ATGM that have a 2km range.
And wow - yes the gap does matter. Having a huge gap like that for spaa puts the country at a disadvantage. If you can’t see that we have nothing more to discuss. Good day.
That wasn’t what I said, try again:
Remove a historical feature (optional, but good to have, as representing reality is good when its possible) for it to become one of the worst SPAAs in the game? The first half of that sentence is not the entire message and taking it out of context is not smart.
But since you have replied with more than this,
Very few, and the german ones you have referenced have been made limited/unavailable.
Such as?
This is a problem of the overall gameplay being ahistorical, but not the VEHICLES themselves, which is the context we are speaking on.
Because, the only reason its 8.3 at all, is because it’s not being used as an SPAA? It’s being used as a light tank that deletes tanks it can pen. If it was being judged on a SPAA level, it would be no higher than 7.0 or 7.3… if you remove the APDS, you remove the entire reason its 8.3 and now its a 7.0 vehicle at 8.3…
You’ve missed the entire point.
LEAVE IT AT 8.0 and reduce the effectiveness of the apds. It’s an spaa - shooting back at tanks should be a secondary role, not primary.
And if it needs to be dropped down (as you suggest) to 7.7 or so, that would be even better since UK already has an spaa at 8.3, but nothing below that all the way to 5.7/5.3.
ammo cant be adjusted willy nilly, it would also underperform at 8.0 with your changes