That is kind of naïve, to be honest. There’s no use on using the Falcon and actually learn to aim and lead when there’s alternatives at either the same BR (Chieftain Marksman) and +0.4 above (ZA-35), both with radar lock.
I believe Britain’s tanks in between 7.7-8.7 are somewhat mediocre to even contemplate using them thoroughly. Your solution only leads to move on from the Falcon and probably the tech tree at that range, not replacing it with actual good vehicles within that BR range.
That I can agree on, but let’s not pretend Gaijin’s isn’t cutting by the weakest link right now by removing the most niche 30mm APDS belt, which is bs when the most spammed SPAA systems at that range are the Oerlikon-based AAs (XM-246/Gepard/Chieftain-Leopard Marksman/ZA-35/Type 87).
As long as the Oerlikon gang (XM-246/Gepard/Chieftain-Leopard Marksman/ZA-35/Type 87) have APDS, the problem is nowhere near solved.
Removing one belt from one type of SPAA cannons and calling it a step in the right direction is just not true, it doesn’t fix anything noticeably. They just made brits and french eat the L, probably from players performance.
You’ll still find six other vehicles on five nations ready to roll every game. Being happy about this… is questionable.
How many more nerfs to SPAAG’s AT ability will it take for folk like yourself to actually understand this?
Current gameplay does not encourage them to go kill planes. There aren’t enough planes to go around for several AA. The planes you do kill pay garbage compared to tank kills. You’re expected to move outside your own spawn to set up a nice campy spot to ambush planes - but to reach, let alone secure such spots you need to kill tanks. City maps enable AA to get within spitting distance to where they can shred tanks easily. APHE overperformance was voted against correcting by many of the same people who are now crusading against the Falcon. And non-radar AA require lobotomized pilots to score kills, due to how planes unequally benefit from Mouse Aim and 3rd Person Camera compared to AA. AA also lack the numbers advantage they often had in real engagements, where several AA coordinated fire against individual planes.
Snail has tried to make AA players only do AA duty for more than a decade without success. When I joined it was the Whirbelwind with 65mm pen APCR being whined about, even though that thing could only really melt tank sides and occasionally get lucky on a T-34/76 turret face.
Isn’t trying the same thing for 10 years without success a textbook example of insanity?
The problem with those is APHE overperformance. And the same people cheering for the Falcon getting hit with a wind turbine also voted AGAINST historically nerfing APHE postpen.
There are many longstanding issues with the game which fall under that quote. Expecting SPAAG to patiently sit back waiting for CAS when CAS is an unreliably present killstreak powerup, making it unnecessarily difficult to hit CAS before radar tiers, and not paying SPAAG well for killing CAS when they do hit it successfully is pretty much insanity. No amount of nerfing of AT ability will make players use it solely for AA duty - they’ll either not use it at all or continue using it poorly.
I trust Gaijin, which is why my statements on balancing aren’t my takes but ones stated by Gaijin staff at some stage.
Ground vehicles are balanced on what they’re most effective at; now sometimes this isn’t obvious, especially when players use it one way over another.
ZSU-57 for example is primarily used as anti-tank, despite it being equally useful as anti-air.
2S38 is used as anti-air despite it being better used as anti-tank.
And Falcon is used as anti-air despite it being horrific for the BR it is currently due to the presence of APDS.
Gaijin doesn’t want Britain to be competitive.
Same old shit.
One of the many reasons why I dont play so much anymore after all these years.
Honestly, the game is absolutely terrible these days.
I primarily hate Leo 1 cause of the ZSU-57-2. Its getting spammed against Leo teams and totally hardcounters those. Never encounter that much Gerpard + derivatives vs. Ground. Imho Gepard and its clones are too big, too high profile…not a good ambusher. Unlike ZSU.
You can use any wording you like but however it’s a fact vehicles are balanced by their effectiveness. You might be most effective at killing tanks, but air kills you make are also contributing to your overall balance.
Come on, you can do better.
Around ~18% of all kills made by 2S38 are air ones, so they’re definitely included in it’s balancing.
Same for Falcon, those ~21% of air kills are definitely included.
I thought Alvis was some god-tier SPAA player in the ZSU-57-2, just to see he has a single air kill in 51 games in it. Maybe he was confused with WZ305.
Maybe.
However, it doesn’t seem he found that “equal usefulness” when playing ZSU himself as he, for some reason, has 65x more ground kills than air ones.
I’ve been playing a lot (and I mean a lot) of Germany 7.0, and I can honestly say that the ZSU-57-2 is a joke to face when you’re in the air. You can hear it firing across the map (like M163), you can easily see the shells coming at you (it’s not some invisible AHEAD shell nonsense), and the rate of fire is not there. Add in that it is extremely vulnerable with most of the crew right there in the open top, making it vulnerable to a single burst of any CAS fire. We already all know this, though.
My biggest pet peeve is when something like the Gepard puts their radar down at game start and never lifts it again. I use SPAA against ground, but I always have SPAA there in my mind. I’ll stop what I’m doing and focus on air. But even then, I’ll always have way more ground kills because ground targets are more plentiful, there’s just simply way more ground targets to kill. Like, I had one game last night where I had 6 air kills in one game, but ground kills are still way more:
ZSU after the gun handling nerf has like 3.0 BR worthy AA performance.
It’s surely one of the most pathetic AAs for it’s BR when it comes to shooting down air.
Also, why is it still at the same BR as Coelian ?
Global statistics don’t point a rosy picture for air kills in the ZSU-57-2, either. Nor does actual real life experiences with the ZSU when it was used in Vietnam and other conflict zones. Only the WZ305 works as an SPAA because of the HE-VT shell. Where is this:
What do you mean bro ?
Whole community struggles to play ZSU as an AA at 7.0 (Alvis himself included), but somehow everyone is just plain dumb and can’t extract that “equal usefulness”.
Alvis has slipped up and proceeds to die on one of the most avoidable hills you could find in WT.
