So their aphe is fine, they can use it for defence and leave heavier targets to teammates. I’m not sure why the falcon was nerfed ahead of 35mm spaas, as well as the t58, there are numerous more broken vehicles that need a nerf way more
Lmao.
None of you are on the same page. Half of you are up in arms over its APHE round due to overpressure being insane, while the other half are upset about APDS.
Gepards don’t use APDS either. It’s the APHE they slaughter others with.
Emergency 40 round belt which can be replenished. Apds removed, great, now nerf the explosive filler of 35mm spaa, then maybe move the spaa down in br so that it can pretty easily kill planes, everyone can be happy
Buddy, no one uses it. 35mm APDS is extremely weak compared to its APHE belt. I’d know cause I own literally all of them.
Not if gaijin got off their bloody arses (tracking anyway, like M163 but actually closer to SIDAM 25 as its optical, not radar)
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/SYYKuwQiQf1Q
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/SXHi6awMTul4
(the reason it doesn’t get tracking is because gaijin haven’t added a Laser rangefinder for it)
so what? does that somehow makes it fair for the patton player to die to this BS?
I guess its just not a balancing decision. Falcon never used APDS in the first place. Docs didn’t even mention that it was panned to do so. Just fired practice rounds irl and was planned for SAP-I. No Falcon related doc mentions APDS.
The Falcon shouldn’t be loosing its APDS rounds. This is just another day of the Devs trying to balance the game though stupid idea’s.
tldr the dev team is retarded and gives the player base shiny stuff so the player base ignores their stupidity…
Gepards were also treated this way. I still remember them shooting APDS with its main belt. You could swap belts as you wished upon release. Didn’t took long and it was hardcoded to mere 20 APDS per gun, as historica (well also recent). Which pretty much solved the issue.
Falcon at least had the license to brrrp for several years. Just be happy about that.
then you make a worst sidam! congrats
SPAA are based off of their anti air capabilities no?
No, otherwise ZSU-57-2 would be at 3.0 and not 7.0.
All vehicles are based off of efficiency aka RP/SL gain.
im fine with that
because i primarily used it as an spaa for two years.
Got fed up with gepard spam so i use the falcon to hard counter them
See I always wonder that, cause I’ve seen loads of folk say SPAA get balanced off of their A2A capabilites. think @AlvisWisla mentioned it last to me.
it doesn’t really counter them as hard as it seems gepard is more mobile, better traverse rates and actually faster fire rate is it not?
Though the falcon is great for me fr getting rid of pesky rat auto cannon lights
For anyone feeling my suggestions are “insane” or “crazy” - please understand where they’re coming from. I’ve seen this cycle of “just nerf [insert SPAA], then they’ll finally go kill only planes, right? Right?!” for more than ten years!
I remember when it was the Whirbelwind being complained about, alongside the Flakpanzer 1, Flakpanzer 38, and Panzer IIs. Nerfing the gun put the lineups with them pretty much out of commission, but did it fix the underlying reasons people go hunt tanks with their SPAA? NO!
We basically have two main “camps” on this issue regardless of which SPAAG in question is being talked about.
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People complaining about SPAAG killing their tanks, coming up with any number of reasons why they shouldn’t be able to, often showing examples of what are bugs/buggy features as “proof.”
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People who think SPAAG killing tanks is being massively overreacted to, and should be seen as normal.
We can’t please both of these groups simultaneously. The reason I oppose the former *because they will just jump to complaining about something else not long after whatever their target is that gets nerfed. They can literally NEVER be satisfied. At some point you gotta stop listening to people who shout “nerf” every time anything defeats them, or the rest of us will be left with an entire game where nothing works well at all. If no amount of nerfing will ever satisfy camp #1, why are we still listening to them at all?
Because I see that this cycle of “just keep nerfing the SPAAG” will go nowhere, that is why I (albeit quite angrily) propose a total paradigm shift on the matter. Embrace and enhance their tank-killing ability, while intentionally moving most of them down in BR expecting them to hunt tanks, and if applicable give them currently-missing ammo types to do so with.
Now, addressing the bugs/buggy features that allow SPAAG to pen things they damn well shouldn’t is a totally separate issue. I see no reason NOT to address all of that, but all of that has no easy fix.
- To address armor holes, the game needs to convert every single vehicle to use volumetric armor on its entire structure.
- To address buggy netcode enabling autocannons to overload the server requires either artificial RoF reductions to what the server can handle on the egregious ones (likely not happening) or upgraded servers (expensive).
- To address the “bounce 4x and shell ignores armor afterwards” issue, just remove that feature, as a round bouncing should lose a lot of penetrating power if its a small-caliber round striking a thick plate.
- To address “SPAAG dominance in city maps,” we gotta have maps that aren’t pure cities as standard. Yet knowing the game’s history, many of the same people complaining about SPAAG now were also the ones complaining Maginot was too big. I miss the full-size version of that map in my Panzer IVs and Shermans…
- Historically nerfing APHE postpen so that autocannon APHE doesn’t go nuclear when it pens. Unfortunately the same people whining about SPAAG now voted AGAINST even TESTING this…
- To address “SPAAG not bothering to shoot at aircraft,” this demands several things. You cannot expect average players to use something rather bad at its intended role and also be paid shit when it even works in that role.
- Greatly increased rewards for SPAAGs bagging aircraft.
- Give all radar-less ones a shorter-range version of the Arcade lead marker that is modified by Crew Skills. 0-1km for stock crew, 0-1.5km for aced crew. All Heavy SPAAGs classed as TDs, all SPHs with HE-VT shells, and quite possibly all tanks with commander-mounted MGs could get this feature, too.
- Address cases of radars not working right like on the AMX-30 S DCA (apparently) or of lead-tracking features being missing like on the Falcon.
- Broader reforms of how CAS is implemented so that SPAAGs have a steady supply of CAS to shoot at, and are not sitting there bored out of their minds waiting for planes to spawn.
None of these have easy fixes. Thus snail is merely throwing a rug over the rotten part of the floorboards instead of addressing any of this.
5 Likes
I mean, do you trust Alvis more or public statement made by Gaijin ?
And to be useful as spaa they need to drop the BR. Was raised to 8.3 because of APDS. Fighting 8.3+ aircraft with guns and no radar is a problem. Needs to go down to the introduction BR of 7.7
Without the APDS it’s frankly worse than the Coelian or Kugelblitz. I’d argue it belongs as low as 6.0 where the Zerstorer 45 is. Sure its fully turreted with no weird blind spots and is technically closed-top, but it can be casually .50cal’d to death by literally anything.
Like all non-radar gun AA, it runs into the same issues of being pretty much wholly dependent on the enemy CAS having no brain cells at all and flying straight at the Falcon to be killed by it. And the Falcon is so thin-skinned it will likely at best trade with a plane that does this.
See I know gaijin said it but i’ve never found their public statement on it, you got a link to it?