What are you going on about mate, the BMPT just got launched up nearly 2 BRs since it released which is the fastest I’ve seen a vehicle move up.
Soviet crying about what? xD no soviets are crying about falcon rn
I know what I read.
And there’s only one Falcon - a prototype - the thing never went to production.
The lightest version it’s based on - the FV432 APC - can only reach 52 kph
I’ll wait to see the proof from the poster to verify the claim.
What I’m asking (since you seem to be rather experienced in the game playing multiple nations at various BRs) is which in your observation seems to be a larger problem. I’ve told you my answer - that light tank spam is leagues more of an issue than any TD-SPAA.
Considering how much CAS gets spammed in the 4.7-7.0ish range, much of it from people spamming light tanks, I’d daresay the light tank dominance over everyone starts way earlier than MBT tier.
My point is that every single possible opponent of your rolling pillbox heavy is able to frontally cripple your ability to shoot him regardless of what gun or ammo he has. Which effectively means your armor can never truly matter in any frontal encounter.
Wouldn’t actual balance instead be requiring most opponents to have to pen the sides of the slow rolling pillboxes, with only a handful being able to frontally harm/kill them? Otherwise why did they throw away all their mobility if the armor they gain still cannot protect them at least frontally? Many nations have examples of this sort - Maus, T95, IS-4M, Tortoise, Foch to name a few.
It’s the only test we had, and it was to my recollection over the then-top-BR range of the game. At the time Ka-50s were still first-spawning in midair with overperforming Vkhir missiles, so anti-CAS rage was at a particularly high point then.
Yet even then we have not seen so much as a single repeat of this event, even though CAS has gotten much more potent since. Does that not suggest that the first test clearly told the devs it’s not popular enough to bother with?
Yes it will. Give people counters to CAS which actually work, and most of them will eventually shut up about the CAS they claim to hate and go use said counters (or at least try to). If everyone at every tier were given default SPAAG based on the 9.3+ BR feature, and that was paired with Naval’s default Fighters and Default CAS options, then everyone would have multiple effective counters to CAS right out of the box. And they’d also be able to bring more counters of their own if they grinded them out.
Then, it is entirely each user’s choice how much of a “problem” CAS is from then onward. If they now have the tools to help themselves, but choose not to, it’s no longer a game problem, but a player one. Goodbye and good riddance to the whiny tanker victim mentality which drives much of the CAS debate. Either get with the program and use the tools to help yourself, or let your “preferences” render yourself irrelevant.
I’ve personally seen how the Coelian buff caused a bunch of those to flood the MM, and in the process of being used to annihilate tank sides, many players also swatted lots of planes, and the whining at those BR ranges almost totally stopped. Similarly, with the proliferation of radar AA, people don’t complain about CAS all that much there either. And while I haven’t played at those BRs, I have read plenty of forum threads about how the current top tier SAMs were on release creating no-fly zones, upon which CAS rage vanished. All that tells me that giving people effective counters will indeed solve the problem.
When I am calling for flipping the script on SPAAG, I have clearly stated that actual buggy features such as this still need addressing.
Restoratively buffing the rounds that are supposed to kill tanks and fixing the rounds that aren’t supposed to do so very well are not mutually exclusive.
Well if you do that you cripple a bunch of lineups and unleash a flood of anti-CAS whining again. The APHE itself isn’t the problem - the size of the damage area and it being a sphere of death IS.
Yet the same people complaining about the Falcon, DCA, and 35s voted against nerfing APHE to correct levels.
Ever since I saw that, I knew that such folk must be not just passively ignored, but aggressively moved against so they cannot damage the game any further.
Indeed. The Falcon, for all its strengths, is made of glass and can be .50cal’ed to death.
Not only is it lame, but with how the effective range on SPAAG guns vs planes is (ideally 500-800m even in high velocity guns like the Falcon), camping at the back of the map renders you powerless to stop CAS pummeling your team near the front lines.
This is why the very people who keep crying for SPAAG nerfs are, funny enough, making their own gameplay experience worse via making CAS less counterable.
And cupola overpressure is not unique to SPAAG APHE either - regular tank shells do it just as well.
It does seem that much of the complaining about the Falcon’s sabot comes from Korea-era Soviet users, because without sabot, the Falcon cannot reliably pen a T-54 anywhere, and it already couldn’t so much as scratch a T-10, IS-3, IS-6, IS-7, or IS-4M. The APHE will still pen M60s, M103s, T58s, Leopards, various light tanks, and much of what it sees, though at less forgiving ranges.
Good to see - I recall at one point hearing how the Falcon and Warrior/Fox’s 30mm guns are supposed to use different cartridge sizes, with the Falcon’s being significantly larger and thus underperforming in both muzzle velocity and therefore penetration. I forget if it was an old forum thread or a Reddit one, but one of the two stated with documentation that the Falcon’s APDS should pen as much as 145mm.
Correct, it will only stop shredding Russians and their 80mm side plates, as the 20mm underside plates are rather unreliable to hit in my experience. I do remember laughing out loud when I hit that area on an IS-4M in a Pakwagen once by complete accident, thinking it was an IS-3 and aiming for the flatter part of the 90mm side.
Yeah, many awful legacy BRs still have yet to be addressed due to people ceasing to play the now-neutered thing.
Regarding the BMP-T, would that thing even be an issue if it had APFSDS and was uptiered where that round would place it, alongside its single internal-external ammo belt detonating it if struck? As its a single belt, shouldn’t it be ammo-racked rather easily?
IMO, It should carry APDS at a limited amount, roughly 40 rounds would be good, still some APDS, but not enough to go gung-ho
I don’t know for certain, they both have their unique things that can annoy players, but I would say I’m less annoyed with the fact light tanks can use scout drones at certain BRs than I’m with the fact one 35mm round can nuke the entire turret by simply grazing a cupola.
First you need to be willing to spawn in something that isn’t a tank for that to take effect.
Your armor will always matter.
They can destroy your barrel, but if they can’t penetrate your armor they’ll be forced to go around you to kill you, possibly exposing themselves in the process. You can also try to fall back while all that is happening. Doing this takes much more effort from their side than just lolpenning you, don’t you think ?
Read above.
I’d say that HEAT/HE shells are much more problematic to those than barrel torture.
Last time I checked it was an event centered around WW2 vehicles and wasn’t popular for quite a few reasons, not because you couldn’t play CAS.
Not really, even trying to draw any conclusions from that alone is more than foolish.
It happened several years ago, some people who played back then left the game and many more joined their place. Who knows how many vehicles and mechanics were added into the game and who knows how many opinions have changed from then till now.
The only true popularity check would be through an official poll made by Gaijin.
Doing this could easily backfire though and showcase that people only play WT’s combined aspect mode, which is Gaijin’s bread and butter, because they have to, as they have no other options to pick from. No wonder they aren’t content with stirring up the pot to gain little to nothing in return.
They chose to not wake up the beast (not just when it comes to TO) and just live happily while farming money from all those copy paste premiums.
Seeing the history of WT it’s clear to see it isn’t happening.
Default fighters would solve nothing as people simply aren’t interested in playing planes, which is more than fair.
Sure thing. Gaijin dont know sh… when they balance the machine. Falcon is one worst SPAA out there so it beng a decent light tank is a good thing. Especialy as its pretty slow and easy to kill. But gaijin wants it to play with APHE pressure damage, to make it more obvious that it was the worst mechanic added in game.
its fairly obvious to say that some SPAA just arent capable of fighting planes, and some are just as good with killing planes as with killing tanks. The problem starts when the autocannon becomes the ultimate weapon. Think of it as of AKM against M40. Its fair to say that M40 has better pen, better distance, more accuracy, ect. But the AKM just shreads it as soon as it comes to the safe distance.
Its fair to say that Gaijin`s balance is just broken here, and their damage model does not help. The lightweit, unarmored and mobile SPAAs with automatic weapons and good stabilization (even without STABS they have such fast aim that shooting on the move is easy enough) with current ingame reality just destroy the sh… out of cardboard boxes cold war era tanks are. Because they are hard to damage, agile and deadly. At the same time MBTs of the era are agile, but have just enough armor to make spaal fly everywhere, and thin enough to get oneshotted to cupola or roof with APHE pressure of the autocannon. And have the APDS or APFSDS that deals absolute zero damage to such lowly armored machinery. Plus the effects of explosion that make it just hard enough to shoot SPAA back that gives it time to kill you. Plus the armor model of tanks that has “holes” in it so SPAAs damage even with HEs. And so on.
And at the same time those destroyers are obviously underpowered against air. Yes, the same rank and lower rank planes are easy to kill. And then it becomes useless against GBU and AGM, and its much less effective against helicopters. So the engire game design just screams - GO DO CRIME, e.g. go shread tanks as you wont be as effectve aganits air. And thats about the cold war era SPAAs that at least have good distance. If we`re about them Wirbelwinds, Crusader SPAAs, Skinks… they are just useless utmost. They do fairly good against planes that come 500m to them and do nothing otherwise. And they arent able now to defend themselves agaist most enemies at the capture points so they lack the motivation to move further than spawn.
Well it seems your problem isn’t SPAAG at all, but rather APHE postpen in general. Yet the same people who are cheering the Falcon’s wing-clipping are also the ones who voted against nerfing APHE. I have no idea how you voted in said poll (I voted for testing the historical nerf), but when people do something and then experience the consequences of that thing they did, at that point all you can say is “you did it to yourselves, guys…”
Correct. And clearly there are lots of people willing to do so.
But as teammates are completely unreliable, you cannot shoot them back because they spammed at your barrel tip. I guess its a difference in worldview regarding the game, but if even the most heavily-armored tank can be disabled by the weakest cannon, it makes me question the value of the armor, because it only delays the inevitable. Especially since most of the rolling pillboxes cannot hope to reverse into cover faster than the guy who barreled them can run up to their side.
For armor to actually matter, it needs to provide total immunity at least frontally to the majority of its opponents, barrel included. People should have no choice but to ambush it from the side or rear to harm it.
I’m in a T95, I should be able to not just sit back and pick off unaware people through their sides like any light or medium can do, I should be able to push enemies out of their camping spots with them unable to do shit about it if they lack LOLpen rounds. That is what a “breakthrough” vehicle like that is supposed to be. But barrel damage means it can’t even think about trying.
But not every single vehicle you can possibly encounter has those, annoying as they are. Thus no matter what vehicle you run into, even in something that throws away all of its mobility for armor, it still is not immortal frontally. That is just wrong in my eyes, and always will be.
Supposedly there was an ancient WW2 event predating even my time in this game (2014 I guess, as I joined in 2015), but the one in 2019 was for the then-top-BR bracket, and it was intentionally placed in the bracket where rage against CAS was at a peak vs the Ka-50. It had a pretty good mix of open and city maps in rotation, and I observed some hype about the mode test.
Well its all we have in terms of actual experience to work with.
It could only backfire because CAS is not implemented very well, and never has been. Dumb game mechanics encourage its use as a petty revenge killstreak powerup. The counters either don’t work well without extensive practice far above what any other vehicle requires or are killstreak powerups and not available when you need them. And then the real kicker is that when you take a step back you realize CAS has literally nothing else to do but annoy player tanks, even though real CAS did many more functions the mode currently doesn’t represent (and many of those other objectives tanks could also do).
Thus we have a rage-inducing situation with questionable counters and CAS forced into doing a tiny fraction of its real job. Of course people would get frustrated at that.
I don’t consider it “a sleeping giant” of any sort, and never will. Yes, snail is just ignoring it and hoping it goes away.
The sheer irony of the entire CAS situation is that most or all of the components needed to truly fix it into a healthy, balanceable, and balanced part of the game already exist scattered in different modes.
And only by doing so would we realize just how popular TO actually is when rage and salt are not fueling it, because the vast majority of proposals for it do not think about consequences of adding such a mode, let alone try to adjust their idea to compensate.
Even in BR ranges where AA are highly effective, planes are still fairly common. If people had default ones that were actually good (not bone-stock and helpless like the current default AA are), I am pretty much certain more people will use them.
Like strike drones are frankly just bad, yet those show up on a semi-regular basis. The same people who use those because they lack other options would probably jump in Naval-esque default planes if they had the option.
Yeah, I won’t deny here that RoF > AA gun caliber. Though if people had some kind of lead indicator on all the non-radar ones out to a shorter range than most radars, I would like to think they’d make even slower-firing ones like 40mm Bofors and Co. work well enough.
Yup - the pile of old nerfs and bad design choices created this mess. And instead of actually fixing all these things, snail would rather throw a rug over it and pretend it doesn’t exist.
City maps enable the AA to suddenly zoom around corners and shred stuff before enemies can react. APHE overperforms globally on all guns. In my experience only the XM246 can be annoying to damage, all the other “problem” AAs are either made of glass or are ammo explosions waiting to happen (ex. Gepards). Old armor models not having been updated to volumetric standards are just pathetic at this point - how many years has it been since volumetric debuted?
Thing is, I don’t consider AAs shredding tanks to be “criminal” at all. If any gun can pen the sides of the majority of its opponents, then it can and should be used to hunt tanks. Currently WT has CAS as a killstreak powerup, so there are always more tanks roaming around than CAS. It’s rather rare that you see a competent helicopter user stay far enough back to avoid AA in the 8.0 range (and isn’t the Mi-4AV the only one whose missiles can outrange AA?), the rest you just have to patiently wait for them to get within gun range with the radar off so they don’t spot movement. Of course yes long range guided weapons hard-counter AAs and demand SAMs to counter instead, but that’s a whole different story.
Whirbelwinds used to be the thing that people screamed about shredding their tanks. It had a 65mm pen full APCR belt that actually had decent postpen damage and didn’t shatter upon impact with the slightest slope.
I’ve looked up the 20mm guns on the Crusader AA, AEC AA, and Skink, and have not been able to find if that gun had any better rounds developed for it. No platform with that gun and its current ammo should be above 3.7, IMHO. The Crusader Mk1 AA is a different story.
But you plainly see the player behavior issue I do with them sitting in spawn, and how it renders teams practically defenseless vs CAS if you don’t have your own Fighters up.
Yeah, it’s sad to see its wings clipped. Though I did kill a decent number of particularly gutsy jets when spading mine, so clearly its not totally unable to do AA duty.
I can only wonder though if snail would ever dare to state “we’ve seen your complaints about APHE postpen damage, but let us remind you that you as a collective community voted against even testing a historical spall pattern - you brought this on yourselves.”
And many people played it, there is no issue with queue.
Falcon is a boogey man, it forces Russian and German mains to have to look.
The Falcon is no more dangerous than any SPAAG or IFV autocannon vehicle.
We are seeing the same hysteria we had with the Fox.
Its small has decent pen, you flank and hide and shoot tanks that have no situational awareness in the side.
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