F4J UK too high br

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The F-4J UK is at too high a BR. It’s at the same BR as the F-4S, but the F-4J UK is significantly worse.

It carries AIM-7E dogfight missiles, which are nearly impossible to use effectively, while its AIM-9Gs are useless most of the time. It doesn’t have an HMD, and its flight model is terrible for its BR.

It’s way worse than the JA37C Viggen, yet the Viggen sits comfortably at 11.3, which is fair. The F-4J UK, on the other hand, desperately needs a BR reduction. It’s almost unplayable at its current BR.

Alternatively, Gaijin could give it better missiles, such as the Skyflash SuperTEMP.

Honestly, this just shows how many jets are being forgotten by the Gaijin team.

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FYI there’s an accepted bug report on this already, but gaijin just chose to take forever to implement it. Maybe they did forget abt it like you said.

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Dramatic

The Super Temp is still worse than an AIM-7F if your only problem is the armament, it’s still the same.

Still vastly superior to the Skyflash DF it gets.

I know, but he made the weaponry his main point of criticism, because, honestly, I don’t agree with the part about the airframe.

His criticism is fair. Skyflash DFs are vastly inferior to both the 7F and SuperTEMP. While the superTEMP is still worse than 7F in general (though is better within 15km), the gap of performance between superTEMP and 7F is a lot smaller than between superTEMP and DF

I agree, I just wanted to point out that he shouldn’t think he’s going to be better than someone.

The difference between Aim-7F and Skyflash SuperTEMP is fairly minimal. In most situations you wouldnt notice a difference.

But Skyflash DF vs Aim-7F is a massive difference.

The biggest defect remains the guidance delay

Pay attention to the rMin and its a non-issue. Ive never had an issue in that regard with the STs

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Tbf he didn’t mention that? He only said that the planes are worse than other 12.0 counterparts (though i disagree on it being worse than the viggen bc it still possess superior missile quantity)

He mentions 4 missiles, 1 flight performance, and makes 2 comparisons to other aircraft.
He mainly compares weapons objectively.

And I’ll say it again I don’t disagree with him. I think the plane is playable, but clearly inferior to its rivals.

Id place the Junk at 11.7

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idk. In my opinion the HDN radar and 4 buffed DFs are still superior to a mig-23’s situationally MTI radar and 2 R-24Rs. But it is inferior to almost all the 12.0s. I feel like a buff to its weaponry (whose bug report is already accepted anyways) is better than dropping it down in BR.

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Im operating on an assumption the R-24Rs are gunna get buffed soon, and so largely disregarding that part

At which point the Mig-23s still have the better FM, missiles, CM count, etc. Quite frankly, Ive always thought the Mig-23MLD should be 12.0

FGR2 100% should get buffed, FG1 Id like to see remain with its current loadout and then wait on decompression. JUNK could take either route or a middle ground with just some buffs. But right here, right now, its definetly the weakest 12.0 aircraft.

(should be noted that the FGR2/FG1 vs Mig-23MLD is fairly balanced in SB, and Id argue the radar performance differences are more notable in that gamemode than ARB)

lol Calling the Mig-23ML/F-4J UK worse than Viggen is funny.
They are worse than F-4FG & F-4J/S, but not worse than Viggen.

YES, the Junk is the worst one but british phantoms overall are pretty poor vs the pack.

they are vastly inferior to the american and japan tree peers but because of player stats, gaijin thinks they are in par with a phantom with HMD

In an ideal world the british phantoms would go:

FG1(F-4K): Same weapons 11.7 (within current compression)

FG2 (F-4M): AIM-9L and AIM-7e2 (skyflash dogfight) to represent a post falklands phantom based at stanley. 12.0 (within current compression)

J(UK): underwing countermeasures like the K/M with AIM-9L and Skyflash Supertemp to be the ultimate British Phantom despite the worse engines. 12.3 (within current compression)

I dont know of any reason why the J(UK) doesnt get the two extra sparrows but it probably should get them if it can, they were literally US phantom Js bought to cover for the FG.2s stationed in the falklands so there should be no reason why not

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Given that the JUNK is the supposed “baseline phantom” that was then developed into the FG and FGR, it kinda doesn’t make sense to me to have it as the ultimate british phantom.

I understand that perspective. the K/M is a evolution of the J, however for british service it is the latest variant to be fielded.

Very backwards for the phantom lineage but chronological for FAA/RAF service

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Britain purchased the surplus Js after the falklands in 1984 to augment the FGR2/FG1s in service to serve as QRA. In 1991/92 they were replaced by Tornados F3s in the QRA role, with the phantoms being entirely retired from service

So chronologically for britain, they were right at the end of the Phantoms being in service and so make sense having the best available weapons.

On the flip side, from a game PoV, they lack the RR engines or extra CMs, so whether they should be a lower relative BR with no weapon upgrades or partial is a debate to be had.

Alternative to Scimitars proposal you could have:

  • FG1 —> 11.7 (no loadout changes)
  • F4JUNK —> 12.0 (But gains Skyflash STs)
  • FGR2 —> 12.0/12.3 (Gains Skyflash STs and 9Ls)
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