F4J Phantom II - It needs a BR drop

The F-4J II is a 12.0 phantom and is the second highest when compared to the AAMRAM Phantom.

The 12.0 version carries Aim-9Ds, Aim-9Es, and both AIM-7F dogfight and regular sparrows. The radar used to launch them has a PD HDN VEL radar. On top of that, it also gets a HMD with a HMD HDN mode for the radar. To use any cannons or guns, it has a mountable gunpod under the center of the plane.

Here is why I think a BR drop to 11.7 would be good:

  • The Radar
    The radar is one of the few radars with a PD function when facing downtiers. HOWEVER:

    1. It only functions in headons
    2. It is a velocity only type of scan. While this is great for filtering chaff, it does not tell you how close a target is unless you lock someone. The only info otherwise is showing where an aircraft is in regards to the angle of the radar scan towards the left or right side of the radar screen. Or in other words, the angle of the aircraft on the X axis of the cone. The lower the speed an aircraft is recorded, the closer the contact is to the bottom of the radar, and vice versa.
    3. The HMD is also a HDN scan.
    4. The benefit of a velocity scan is that its fairly hard to multipath the radar when moving towards the phantom.

Worth to note that the JA37s get sparrows with a all aspect PD at 11.3.

  • RWR
    The RWR is the same as the F-14A. No track detection, covers a modest number of bands, and very limited launch detection capabilities. The following conditions will trigger a launch warning from my experience:
  1. R-3 SARH launches
  2. Launches from OSA SAMS (If done in close proximity, otherwise would appear as MID or a ?. When a launch warning would appear, it would appear as HI)
  3. Phoenix ARH missies if they were launched with a direct radar lock, or the missile goes Pitbull on you towards your side, and shows up as MID. (Other early ARH missiles with show up as LO under all possible scenarios under testing, this also applied to Phoenixes if it didn’t meet the above parameters to trigger a launch)
  4. Early SARH missiles or SARH missiles launched with early radars, showing up as MID or HI
  5. Launches done by other Phantoms in close proximity, showing up as LOW.
  6. If a threat is pinged as ?, any chance of a launch warning from that ping is nonexistent, as a LO, MID, or HI must be recorded before the chance of the rwr detecting a launch has a chance to occur.
  • Armament

The stock grind for this phantom is absolutely abysmal and is the worst for any of them. While AIM-9Ds are fairly good for the BR, with 20Gs of overload, and long motor burn time giving it a lot of range, its a caged seeker, and is about as slow as a sparrow. You only get two of them stock on top of a very heavy, very inaccurate gun pod.

AIM-9DS are rear aspect as well, which until the dogfight sparrows are unlocked (Rank 3, for the regular, its rank 4), the gunpod would have to be used for head-on attacks. When the radar works, the sparrows very easily hit. A total of 8 missiles can be equipped.

  • My conclusion

I would recommend the Phantom be lowered to 11.7 so it does not have to face AIM-120s or more advanced ARH missiles. When stock without any SARH missiles, facing 13.0 aircraft is absolutely unfair due to the absolute lack of any counters at long to medium ranges. Aircraft even at lower BRs have much better PD radars and RWRs.

Paired with the HDN only radar, if a plane is flying away from you at long distances, there isn’t really anything you can do, while other planes at similar BRs could. The Airframe isn’t also really favorable either. With it not being able to face most ARH missiles and to mitigate the terrible stock grind, 11.7 would be a great fit. 11.3 would be overdoing it due to the radar being PD in general and having very long range sparrows, not to mention some aircraft in down tiers at 11.3 would not have an advanced enough RWR to detect its launch.

If kept at 12.0, change the stock loadouts to include at least 2 sparrows or a full set of sidewinders so it’s not almost entirely limited to rearward launches constantly or dogfighting in a terrible airframe.

Let me know about your thoughts, and other suggestions you might have to balance it. This is based of my judgement and I’m not all too good at the game, so my opinions and knowledge will be different from others with more or less experience.

It should not go down, better decompression is better solution though i don’t see that happening,

4 Likes

Decompression would help, but it should not honestly face AIM-120s at all.

what about the other 12.0 phantoms that are way worse than F-4S?

3 Likes

Being the " second highest" is quite deceptive as there are 5 other worse phantoms at the same br, also there are 12.3 phantoms as well. So technically third.

The aim7 f is a much better missile, more of them, it also have hms, better flight performance and rwr

E-J isnt modest, it is pretty much all the bands that you will ever find around this br on aircrafts.

3 Likes

They can go down as well. Keep the 10.0 and the ammram one where it is. The ones without sparrows could get a 0.3 or a 0.7 drop. Didn’t account for those.

1 Like

okay now that they are 11.7 what about MiG-23s? Should they go down as well?

1 Like

Let me look at the mig-23 really quick.

Im unsure if the 11.7 Mig-23 has PD or not. I’d say drop it as well if it doesn’t have PD. Keep the 11.0 one where it is.

yes and no. MTI is quasi PD (its coherent doppler but with gun to my head i wouldnt be able to tell you the difference) and it only activates BELOW certain alt.

Suppose we drop it to 11.3 then.

Now that the 11.7 MiG-23s are 11.3, what about JA37C? Does it go down as well?

Bring the JA37C up to 11.7. It has a all aspect PD with dogfight sparrows. I’ve sealclubed with that plane before.

I guess that we would also need to bring down the f4e as well

1 Like

Isn’t the F-4S, like, the best 12.0 phantom?

1 Like

it will still see f15As and f18c no matter of 12.0 or 11.7 and those are its real issues

There’s a phantom with AIM-120s

At 12.0? I think not

Ai super text

Define sealclubbing

It’s at 13.0

So what does that have to do with what I’m saying