they spey engines have a roughly 10% increase to afterburner thrust compared to the f4j and f4s, are you saying that it justifys them being at the same BR as the f4j and f4s despite the worse missile loadout then?
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no. i think they should be 11.7 as they are slightly too good for 11.3.
Cloudzy got it bang on
F-4EJ is perfectly fine at 11.0.
It is the same as the F-4E (which is great at 11.3), but without the DF 7Es and agile eagle.
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Hi, I don’t want to see Aim-7E-2s below 10.0. Please and thank you.
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I just disagree with this, there is plently of justification for them to be that separate, PD radars is a massive upgrade especially when paired with a decent for 12.0 radar missile like skyflash
I’m pretty sure they don’t
Not the F-4E, it has an internal gun, the C,J and S all need to carry pods though
yeah but the f4e isnt a fair comparison as it doesnt have a pd radar
rip, I do agree that the british phantoms shouldnt be the same BR as the f4s, but they dont need to go down in BR at all, and are fine relative to f4ej
This whole thing is kind of wrong. First of all on the radar part, the APQ-120 isnt that different from the early PD radars which only have PDV HDN (they are basically like the MiG-23 radar but slightly better). The APQ-120 is a perfectly capable radar and has decent look down ability.
As for calling skyflash a 12.0 missile, lmao. Its a slightly better 7E-2, in reality the FGR.2 and FG.1 should get SuperTEMPs to be on par with the 7Fs of the F-4J and F-4S.
I think that FGR.2 in my opinion should go to 12.3 with SuperTEMPs and 9Ls, and that the FG.1 should go to 11.3 as it is.
my only experience with pdv hdn radars is with the tornado and it was great for 12.0, was far nicer to use than mirage f1c with mti (not that you can really limit test that radar because of r530d) and definitely a 0.7 worth improvement over the standard radar of kurnass/f4e, and thats taking into account it was on a tornado, and most of my games were using skyflash dogfights no even the super temp
i dont think they need to be on par, i agree that having two be functionally similar at the same BR is kinda weird, and maybe one could get the aim9L it used and then it would be on par with f4j, but I think the supertemps should be left to the tornado adv/f3 as they are its only redeeming feature lets be real here
??? fg1 and f4e are not equivalents at all what are you on
having a PD radar at the cost of not having internal gun (at least you still get the m61 gunpod not the terrible mk11 gunpod) and no dogfight slats is a more than reasonable tradeoff, it just means you have to treat them as different playstyles
maybe down to 11.7 but not 11.3
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… no the changes arent worthy of a BR difference within the compression of mid tier air.
a BR jump is going from a hunter f1 with bad engines to a F6 with a monster engine with and extra 1000kgf of thrust (going from 3280 to 4270kgf, a 30% increase) and SRAAM
not a slightly better engine, still unreliable radar and a different flavour of rear aspect missile where youre now seeing all aspect IRCCM every match
the level of change between these phantoms is more like A7D to A7E
entirely subjective at this point, we aren’t going to change each others minds so lets move on from this
…
compression issues should not be fixed with more compression
yes we all know the phantoms should go up, yes we all know 12.0 fighting current 13.0s is sad, but we should not put the 12.0 down in BR, this is the same reason the f104a and c went down and the same reason the mig15s and f86s went down and we all know how well that went
did you say that a BR jump is a 10% increase to thrust earlier?
oh yeah you did what happened to that?
yea. this is a 30% increase, very much worth throwing higher.
its only recent that the SRAAM could even be a factor with how bad they were, so this BR difference is all on the engine 30% is worth a whole BR so a 10% is worth being a little higher too
but if 10% increase is worth 0.3 BR increase surely that would mean 30% is worth 1.0br increase, and then theres the extra missiles too, so thats like at least an extra 1.7BR total that should be the difference between the two
youre not poking holes in my logic you know
If above the F6 hunter wasnt so violently compressed for the most part i would fully be for it going up.
however it simply shouldnt ever be able to see an F5 or similar at all
not trying to, just taking the piss, because you british mains are all stubborn so theres no real point in arguing my point anymore as it wont convice any of you and anyone who isnt a british main doesnt really care
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“oh no im just ragebaiting you” great response. thank you for the input
? not ragebaiting, just humoring myself bro
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yes it has good engines that is very hot and not good enough for how much speed i need to stay alive
as the engines on the plane is very hot the missile easily tracks even if u preflare if fired from rear aspect
i will compare it because almost every game im in i get f1c’s
normal f4f*
yes its the 1 and not df version which is farr worse because it has a close range motor and yet a 1.7 sleep time after launch making it practically useless in far range combat headons dog fights plus its shity radar
yes it is a 12.0 plane plus i fight jaguars can suprise launch a missile after bombing bases and it is a problem becuase i fight mirage’s all the time that is what the problem is
the f5t scu at 11.3 carries the python 3 and almost all kfir players just bomb anyways
again 7/10 games are uptiers at 12.0 and planes ike the f5tscu carry this as their free missile
hell it is way better the 9p barely hits targets at like 3-4km and is easily cranked even at 2km when the enemy is running away and running away because its not a front aspect missile
again i fight in 12.0 uptiers are ±1.0 br not 0.7
those other missiles can only be easily flared if u flare right after they are fired
because u can turn in most phantoms with ur aghile eagle set i turn super slowly
ja 37 and mig 23 has these
which is why the br it is in fights too many overpowered chinese and russian planes at the very least make it unable to find mig 23ml’s because its rwr doesnt detect j band so every game is just fly to the fight and when im almost there eat an invisible missile.
it fights in lobbies full of either mig 23ml where all missiles comming at me are practically uncounterable without using all my counter measures and bleeding all my speed sure it can be used to fight migs, but the sarh missiles can be completely drained of speed with 1 crank