Except you have 30 countermeasures, which effectively nullfiies this advantage. There’s no point of having a good fm if I don’t have the cms to defeat missiles with.
@Demon_Of_Razgriz
Congrats on winning against superior aircraft.
I’ve won against superior aircraft in my F3H as well, that doesn’t change the fact that F3H, AV-8, & F-104 are not good dogfighters.
the spey is a godly engine at the lower end vs the GE engines, they are about the same close to VNE tho.
not worth trading better sparrows at all, they need a total redo tbh. FG1 at 11.7 in current state, FG2 at 12.0 with 9L (just like they were when based in the falklands in the mid 80s) and then J(UK) at 12.3 with 9L and supertemp as a peak junk would be rather fun to play and balanced i believe.
gaijin seems to think the F-4K/M are on par because player statistics keep the FG1 performing about the same as the US J. they dont play the game at all i swear…
So is “actually turning”. The F-4E platform, the most agile phantom platform, itself already has trouble with high speed compression. The F-4E also already out 2-circles most planes. The FG/FGR make the plane even worse compression wise and nerf its AOA capability by a lot without actually changing how matchups work in the 2c department, especially since you cant actually 2c in air RB until late game
yes the FG.1 and FGR.2 accelerate faster, this doesn’t matter because everything at 12.3+ will dust you in this department anyway because you fight exclusively gen4 aircraft unless you get downtiered
So you end up as a jet that cant defend itself as well with maneuvers but also still can’t outrun anything
Of course, that was not my point. He was essentially saying that having superior kinematics isn’t a positive outside of dogfights.
The FGR2/FG1 are mid at 12.0, but mostly because they lack aim-7F. Aim-7E-2 is just not a reliable weapon at those BR’s
The funny thing is, there is an accepted bug report that would give supertemps to the UK phantoms. But they haven’t touched it at all.
Let’s go compression!! We love it
sounds about right as its basically a dogfight with better engine range, and thats the only holdback of the dogfights.
the speys are the fatties of the phantom family tho so it only get you so far when your peers are lighter so can one circle you or just ignore a turnfight with HMD
As much as I would fancy this idea just to bust out my own FG1, a PD HDN plane with 4 sparrows is objectively much stronger than an MLD with only 2.
F-4E could not compete at 12.0, I’m obviously talking about 12.0 jets. The F-4E is also heavier than the non-slated phantoms of the same category, and more draggy.
I prefeer the having the agile eagle slats, but it has some drawbacks. F-4J is noticeably faster than the F-4S which has slats for example.
The Phantoms without slats also have better energy retention, although they can’t pull the same instantaneous turn rate.
The 23 also has a much worse radar
I felt like I did infer it when I mentioned the FG1’s PD HDN radar, but yes, that’s true.
Ok? What does this change? We are talking about FM. You can just replace F-4E with F-4S and 99% of what I said is still true
Minor weight downgrade for much better agility, and you still go over 1350-1400kph near the deck. It literally does not matter. If a F-4EJ Kai and a F-4E fly alongside each other you are never going to really notice the F-4EJ Kai pulling ahead but you will notice if you tell both of them to dogfight
It can’t be overstated how much better the phantom PD radar is to the MiG-23’s MTI radar
The “dogfights” also have the drawback that they can’t dogfight lol. The 7F starts turning sooner too. I don’t remember if the supertemp has the same off the rail behaviour of the 7F or the older E-2
sigh those BRs are just within current compression constraints. Ive said this a billion times now that i think air BRs should exceed BR 25.7…
even when they were top tier the british phantoms were far from special or the best in ARB, i remember mocking the J(UK) players for getting scammed into buying a trash top tier plane
a F-4K isnt going to break the matchmaker at 11.7 which is where it used to be either. not when the F-4E is 11.3 still
I mean it’s a given that a PD HDN radar that works at any range and alt is better than an MTI that only kicks in below 1500
FG.1 becomes the new best 11.7 by wide margins, so how exactly is this within current compression
British phantoms went through MULTIPLE metas where they were the best. Non-consecutive metas I add
If only SRAAM hadnt got axed… we wouldnt even be at this point of comparison. I dont think they are awful in a wide, fast rate fight but within guns range its dead weight
Not much better. Also for the phantom playstyle, the non-slated version makes more sense.
I easily ran from my F-4S teammates when using the F-4J while racing to the bomb targets
Notice what exactly? The slated phantom has better 1C performance, but the non slated has better 2C performance so it can just force the 2C if a late 1v1 comes up between them.
Also the FGR.2 would eat the F-4E in guns only