You are terrible at the game if you believe this. I mean like, insanely bad.
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Bis vs F-16s is fine, and I say this as a Bis flyer.
20 games total in any mig-21bis. 35% win rate. Negative KD. Flagged by trolls.
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That was pre-12.0, and before i learned fighters.
Swedish one I’m focusing on tho I haven’t gotten a match with it yet.
Focusing on Viggen first.
Doesn’t matter. Zilch experience and what you do have is bad. Don’t speak as if you fly these jets.
“I say this as a Bis flyer.”
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I know I did it, but I don’t mind you arguing with him. He is always unexpectedly stubborn. And excessive trust in Gaijin
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I do fly them, check sim.
I have over 10 hours in Mig-21Bis, and my skill issue back in the day when Bis only had R-60s doesn’t change reality today.
@桜坂しずく
I have trust in the law, and trusting the law means trusting businesses that intend to stay afloat.
Sim isnt air RB and isnt reflective of air RB discussions. Check thread tags.
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Self described shill
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Sorry, the 1000 gameplay I mentioned earlier was a bit exaggerated, with a total of 505 attacks, 845 kills, and 268 deaths - after the appearance of F16.
Before F16 appeared, I only had MiG 21BISSAU.
I hope you don’t mind these Chinese words.I just want to explain that I am qualified to discuss the issue of F16.
As for the law you’re talking about, I’m just talking about Gaijin’s attitude
Also, I just want to discuss the issue of F16 in this topic. Please don’t continue discussing Gaijin’s efforts to relieve stress here. I don’t think most people will agree with your opinion
It’s already late here. Good night, enjoy the game
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Bs the 9-13 is from 1984 (and in game has no ECM, so it’s identical to the 1982 MiG-29 9-12),
And with the new flightmodels mig-29s have become bricks.
Also the F-16 entered service in 1977 and the F-16C in 1991… this without mentioning that the SMT is only a MiG-29A with MiG-29M (1991 plane) avionics, without the extra 2 missiles, lower weight and more powerful engines the 29M had
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That is when you knowingly use over powered, newer, and better technology to keep yourself from losing. Its like if a level 100 player were to hover around BR1.0 playing nothing but chinese vehicles.
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Oh we want to talk about introduction dates now ?
Where is Rafale F2 ( 2005) , Typhoon ( 2003 ) , J-10 ( 2005 ) and others ? Suddenly there isn’t so much crying of things being unfair for these aircraft not being there
US mains are a scourge, you are literally wanting 5 different jets one being a heavy fighter, to deal with one, like what is wrong with you lmao.
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F-16’s are ubiquitous, they are everywhere and they are technically best now.
29 SMT has become fata*s that loses speed in turns like delta.
Luckily Russian new missiles are disgusting and will keep the machine in meta.
It’s so sad when wonderful dogfighter as 29 gets relegated to missile carrier
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We, including myself, have been asking about this for a while. I have said over and over they need to stop adding to russia until they backfill other nations. I play Sweden… Where the hell is my 12.3?
You have entirely missed the point.
You have entirely missed the point.
Migs in general are terrible dog fighters. Here are the stats (these are air combat only, no sam losses):
Mig 15 (1:10 KDR)
Mig 21 (1:2 KDR) 240 kills, 501 losses.
Mig 23 (1:4 KDR) 25 kills, 102 losses.
Mig 25 (1:1) 8 kills, 8 losses.
Mig 29 (1:3 KDR) 6 kills, 18 losses.
Mig 15s had a near 1 : 5.6 (1 kill for every 6 losses) vs F-86 Sabres in combat during Korea.
In reality, Migs suck. If you want to get killed in a dog fight, go fly a Mig.
By Comparison:
F4 (4:1 KDR) 151 kills, 41 losses.
F14 (34:1 KDR) 135 kills, 4 losses.
F16 (76 : 1 KDR) 76 kills, 1 loss.
F15 (107:0) 107 kills, 0 losses.
F18 (2:1) 2 kills, 1 loss losses.
Sea Harrier (21:0) 21 kills, 0 losses.
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I would argue that russian jets especially suhois with their elements od super-maneuverability could be top dogfighters in the world today, paradoxically in a world where dogfighting truly has less and less of a value, finally. All those years and decades “experts” predicted it, it has finally happened.
IRL values are one thing, and I’m sure it all can’t be justified by the facts that higher quality western pilots mostly fought third world export and obsolete versions of soviet gear …still
This is a game we talk about, where top skilled pilots face other top skilled pilots in ideal circumstances with contemporary comparable gear, in a fair and equal fight.
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Sukhois are a different story and are not Migs. All be it the few that saw combat on the russian side in Ukraine got stomped. The SU-27 is 6 - 0 in combat (Ethiopian-Eritrean war).
The same could be said for Western values… Except that plenty of other nations like Iran etc flew F4s, F14s, etc without any issues. It truly is a Mig problem. Iran is 68 : 29 in the F4 so a 2.5:1 KDR. Using that as an excuse doesn’t seem to play out when we talk about US and European exports to other nations. For instance:
South Africa 4:0 in F1
Iran 32:1 in F14 vs Iraq.
Pakistan 10:0 vs USSR in Soviet-Afghan war in the F16.
I wouldn’t exactly call Pakistan the best trained pilots in the world. But they got 10 kills and 0 losses in their F16s vs the USSR.
In reality Migs are trash.
The numbers above I posted are pre-russian invasion of Ukraine. Where Mig 29, 31 and SU 27, and 57s have been shot down. But those are Mig 29 vs Mig 29 etc.
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I love how instead of also replying to my comment you keep spreading Bs. First ALL modern estimates confirm that the ratio of F-86 and MiG-15 destroyed in the Korean war is about 1 to 1.3 when MiGs were flown by Soviet pilots.
Most of the MiG-21 lost and basically all the MiG-23s lost were used by freaking middle eastern countries, who neither had trained pilots and in the MiG-23 case they often lacked basic features such as LD/SD radar (most of them literally used the MiG-21 radar lol).
MiG-29s also suffered from untrained pilots, downgraded avionics and most importantly were completely outnumbered. Still it was usually killed by sparrows, not in dogfights.
When East German MiG-29s were put against F-16s after the fall of the USSR they dominated in dogfights, also thanks to the R-73.
If that is not enough the rate charts for the MiG-29A are publicly available, and the old flight model matched them, the new one does not.
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East German Mig29’s dominated Dogfights because of high speed manevurability and R-73, at that time NATO didnt knew Mig29’s capabilites.
The thing is Mig29’s was only good in initial engagements with R73, as soon as fight started to develop that advantage became less and less.
Also dipnote Mig29’s radar was trash compare to F-16’s they described as a blind person in BVR engagements, not to mention durability was also terrible because of fuel consumptions.
First of all let me just say that most of those numbers represent very little. Oh you mean to say that when F-14 Tomcat entered middle eastern theater it absolutely dominated? What a surprise!
But again, we’re talking about game here. Who wants to be dragged into historical and political never ending debates? Mig 29 was, until very recently, top dogfighter in war thunder. Was this representation realistic? I would say it probably was. New variants have lost those abilities, it was probably deliberate effort of MiG designers - better avionics, better missiles, less focus on thrust to weight …they were just following the “meta”.
Unfortunately, that’s not war thunder’s meta : )
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But muh gib grippen gib f22 gib f35 etc etc
The community needs to change that kind of thinking and we can talk then.
The fact that everyone is rushing towards more and more modern crap is keeping everything compressed without bringing in enough filler.
Hence the MM. But when will folks learn, never i guess
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