Thx for the tip, i haven’t touched Gripen in forever after i abandoned Italian tree. Will be nice thing to get back to when i’ll think about researching AESA Eurobomber
Haven’t played my Gripen since 13.0 became the cesspool it is today, but if I had to guess, it’s because it’s specialized into a type of gameplay that isn’t completely obliderated by ARH missiles. The Gripen used to pull off a similar flight profile to the F-15, that being cruising at high altitude, above the SARH spam, only to rain down AIM-9Ms on the cluster once it appeared.
But because of it’s exceptional agility and effectively infinite countermeasures, you can play it stupidly aggressively and it’d probably still work. You can just throw yourself at the enemy team, multipath incoming ARHs, and proceed to beat anything that isn’t an F-16A or F2 in a dogfight. Plus it’s tiny size, great energy retention and effectively infinite countermeasures mean it’s pretty resistent to being third partied. It is legitimately dangerous to get close to a Gripen pilot who knows what he’s doing. F-15s, not so much.
I’d take it out myself to test this theory, but A) I’ve had more than enough of that battle rating to satisfy me for a while, and B) They’re foldering the Gripen C next month, and that means I can completely skip it if I just wait.
Also, sidenote, I’d gladly trade my AIM-7Ms for just two more AIM-9Ms on the F-15. At least then it specializes in the role it’s actually effective in, ambushing with smokeless IRCCM missiles.
The F-14s have been largely forgotten by Gaijin, with their stats inflated by the bulk of players at the tier who will still gleefully headbutt even the most primitive of ARHs despite their screaming RWRs.
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That’s what I did when i was grinding my JAS39E with talismaned JAS39A.
Two skyflash plus 4 Aim-9M combo was hilariously fun and the best part was beating the shit out of premium F-18’s/Su-30’s in dogfights.
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Care to check trough your 13.0 endeavors how many people died to Phoenixes and how many F-14s were used there?
So, you are saying that F-15A can’t play agressively, am i correct?
That’s why I say they’ve been forgotten, since I rarely see any that aren’t the Iranian ones. But, based on my recent experience, I can quite confidently say there are still players who will eat Pheonixes.
Not anywhere near as well as the Gripen, at least. The F-15 is huge and a bit clumsy, with a pretty mediocre roll rate, which makes trying to multipath quite dangerous. It’s engines are also optimized for high altitudes, meaning it’s energy retention while on the deck (And especially in horizontal manuevers, which you have to rely on to not be slapped by a RADAR missile) is not that great.
Compare that with a tiny fighter that’s one of the best dogfighters in the game with great horizontal energy retention, 2 more IR missiles and an HMD.
i will once i get to the F-15A. But i can’t imagine it being worse in uptiers than old F-16ADF with only sparrows. Nowadays they sit at the same br after all, should be a fair comparison.
MiG-29A/G itself is an issue. It should not have R-27ER but it should have R-73.
True 80s configuration.
F-15A deserves facing less Fox 3 but general decompression would be the best solution.
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Indeed, the passive performance advantage is a relative assessment, and if it were an absolute assessment, there would not be much difference.
However, I believe it is a necessary factor when comparing to other aircraft.
Besides, I think the F-15E has proven the usefulness of the speed performance advantage.
Isn’t speed performance something to be evaluated in the SARH/ARH battlefield?
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Referring to what in his message?
So, i guess all the complaints about Flankers having more missiles should be treated this way then, noted.
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The F-15E has considerably more thrust than the earlier models, making it the unquestioned king of energy. It was such an advantage they’d just sit up at stupidly high altitudes salvo off missiles, and if anyone tried to fire something back, they’d just turn around, safe in the knowledge that whatever missile fired at them would not have the energy to catch them at their stupidly high altitiude and speed.
The earlier F-15s can’t do this. The C doesn’t have the raw thrust advantage to pull it off (especially now that it’s up against Typhoons which will easily run it down, and can even contest the E), and the A/J/Baz don’t have the fire and forget weapons to even try it.
Sure, it’s not difficult to defeat incoming RADAR missiles, as long as they’re all coming from one direction, but in so doing you are giving up any offensive capability of your own, and putting yourself in a defensive position you can’t really attack out of safely until the attacking plane is distracted/dead.
I don’t expect any of the 12.7s is doing better than the F-15 in uptiers, to be clear. I don’t think it belongs there long term. But that’s not where the problem lies. It’s in the meta being so heavily defined by the strong ARH slingers that even a vehicle as outwardly strong as the F-15 is in such a poor state that there is no alternative but to lower it’s BR.
We need significant decompression. Not this halfassed 0.3 BR at a time thing they’re going to do.
We also need a mandatory tutorial on how to defeat ARH missiles before people are allowed to play at that tier. The fact that even now, two years after it was initially release, Iranian F-14s can still consistently get multikills by just firing off their missiles as soon as they are in range, is absurd.
Wr could ask further decompression and then move lot of things up.
(Looking at you, MKK)
Sorry, I meant to say “For Gaijin, there is no alternative but to move it up”. Since the obviously correct answer, decompression, would mean making the penultimate grind slightly more bearable, and make their current batch of overperforming premium aircraft less desireable in the process.
Ok, and now pretty much 90% of 12.7 deserves to be 12.3, was the problem solved? M2K CS5 or MiG-29 should not share BR with F-15
Then guess what happens? When 12.3 has a MiG-29 with R-27ER and a M2K CS5? That’s right! Every 12.3 will need to go down too!
Then guess what happens? That’s right! Every 12.0 needs to go down!
11.7…
11.3…
Now there’s a P-51 at 2.0 and the F-80A5 is 6.0!
In how many responses do I need to mention decompression before you understand that that’s exactly what I’m arguing for.
Though, in fairness, the other half of my point is that the current meta caused by the extreme compression also results in the F-15s not being able to perform anywhere nearly as well as their paper stats suggest they can.
This isn’t the same as the Sabres and MiG-15s dominating other early cold war jets. Said early jets can still play their roles, still fight each other, even capitalize on mistakes from the Sabres and MiGs.
This is the ARH slingers completely preventing the F-15s from fulfilling the niche they were designed to fill. They can’t fight at the high altitudes where their flight performance excels, because they’re forced into constant defensive manuevers they cannot resolve on their own. They can’t rain down AIM-9Ms onto people below them because, once they’re in a position to do that, the game’s over.
All that’s left is a somewhat manueverable fighter (With caveats), a strong IR missile kit that can’t really be used before the game is already over, and enough countermeasures that you don’t have to worry about running out. And that’s just really not worth all that much at the moment.
I tested the MiG-29A over 8 matches (not back-to-back), and honestly it’s still really, really good at creating early-game impact. Unfortunately, out of those 8 games, I only saw an F-15A in the lobby once (seems like the F-15A player count is pretty low).
The MiG-29A is still fine if all you care about is combat performance / stats.
Any jet that fully relies on 2 missiles connecting to two targets is not going to be competitive overall, mig-29 included. It takes extremely small mistakes for a MiG-29 to lose all of its impact on a match because the target is let’s say, killed by a teammate 0.1s before your missile hits or 2. The target simply avoids your missile in the myriad of ways they can.
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There is no reason to play F-15.
The issue with MiG-29A/G is that it has R-27ER instead of R-73.
Nor any other 12.7, however the F-15 is the best of the 12.7s and nothing comes anywhere close.