F15A in 12.7 BR

[PyroAddict]

I’m just stating the Mirage 4000 is nowhere near as hopeless against an F-15A as Von Valinor tried to state.

The Mirage 4000 and the Gripen have clear advantages at medium-short ranges, the Su-27 has the missile count. The F-15 gets a mix of missile count and energy? Energy which is absolutely useless for BVR or other purposes because the radar is incapable to connect any missile beyond 10km?

You ask me? Both the F-15A and the M4K should go down if decompression doesn’t happen. Both planes never were true competition to either the Gripen and the Su-27, assuming every plane is on good hands.

[Nowel]

It isnt hopeless, should they be at the same br, sure, but it is still not better than the f15.

[PyroAddict]

@Nowel_

but it is still not better than the f15.

On fully commited turnfights it is better, it mogs the F-15As AOA on low speeds. The only scenario which the Mirage 4000 loses is going vertical.

[Nowel]

Even horizontally the mk 4000 bleeds energy like crazy, if you miss the f15 on the first few turns it just becomes a boat and in bvr is just plain inferior to the f15 due to the head on only radar

[Ion_492]

@PyroAddict

Slower on deck, no HMS, no IOG+DL SARH missile. There’s a couple of disadvantages at the very least.

Yes, but that still doesn’t make it worse overall. They should at least be the same BR, and the F-15 could probably be even higher than the 29G.

@PyroAddict

Both the F-15A and the M4K should go down if decompression doesn’t happen.

Poor 11.7s facing a Mirage with 8 magic 2s, and a literal F-15. If that happens, the base Mig-29s need to be 12.3, or get R-27ERs and R-73s.

It could go down if it lost Aim-9Ms, but I don’t think Gaijin would do that.

[oom1992]

For me, F-15A Baz only decrease battle rating (Air AB, RB, SB) to 12.7

But AIM-9G or AIM-9P instead AIM-9M

Baz | War Thunder Wiki

[PyroAddict]

@Ion_492

Yes, but that still doesn’t make it worse overall.

It does on medium ranges. Let alone the MiG-29Gs ability to sling an R-27ER that, below 6km is basically unnotchable by raw acceleration on an F-15 that travels slightly above 1M.

@Ion_492

They should at least be the same BR, and the F-15 could probably be even higher than the 29G.

Cool, remove its R-73s then. I thought the concensus was to set the floor for most jet fighters with IRCCM missiles to be at least at 13.0.

@Ion_492

Poor 11.7s facing a Mirage with 8 magic 2s, and a literal F-15.

@PyroAddict

Without a decent radar+SARH kit, just remove its 9Ms and move it to 12.7

If you need the same statement for the Mirage 4000, here it is: Without a decent radar+SARH kit, remove its magic 2s (give it M1s) and move it to 12.7.

Always assuming decompression isn’t a valid solution.

@Ion_492

If that happens, the base Mig-29s need to be 12.3, or get R-27ERs and R-73s.

LOL no.

[Normandy_Corsair]

@PyroAddict

Nope. 1 on 1, a good M4K user is perfectly capable to mog a good F-15A user.

I’d really like to see somebody try to prove this

[Von_Valinor]

@PyroAddict

Nope. 1 on 1, a good M4K user is perfectly capable to mog a good F-15A user. Better close range kit, and better dogfight performance, while having a relatively similar radar and worse fox 1.

As long as the Mirage 4000 doesn’t overextend or goes vertical on the first turn (the only strength the F-15A has over its peers, often useless due to crowded lobbies), it should really be an easy W.

Have you ever played with Mirage 4K?

[Normandy_Corsair]

@PyroAddict

Without a decent radar+SARH kit, just remove its 9Ms and move it to 12.7, no one will still play it anyway, everyone with a nerve knows the F/A-18A is objectively better at that BR range and its radar is more than reliable to make 7Ms work.

This is definitely a take that the F-18A (not even the F-18C early) is better than a 9L equipped F-15A

[PyroAddict]

@PyroAddict

Without a decent radar+SARH kit, just remove its 9Ms and move it to 12.7

@PyroAddict

everyone with a nerve knows the F/A-18A is objectively better at that BR range

That whole paragraph was under the assumption it could potentially be moved to 12.7 without 9Ms.

[PyroAddict]

@Von_Valinor

Have you ever played with Mirage 4K?

You have better slightly better stats with the Mirage 4000 than with your only F-15.
What’s the point of your argument.

[Normandy_Corsair]

@PyroAddict

That whole paragraph was under the assumption it could potentially be moved to 12.7 without 9Ms.

Ok?

@Normandy Corsair

This is definitely a take that the F-18A (not even the F-18C early) is better than a 9L equipped F-15A

@Normandy Corsair

is better than a 9L equipped F-15A

[Von_Valinor]

@PyroAddict

What’s the point of your argument.

It wasn’t an argument, it was a question.
Have you ever played with Mirage 4K?

[PyroAddict]

The F/A-18s radar is better than the F-15As to start with?

Both are HMSless, so the F/A-18 is better by sheer nose authority to get IR locks without radar slave?

It’s not like quantum science levels of deduction, you know.

[PyroAddict]

I haven’t, but I already own it.
I have genuinely no issues to play it whenever I feel like it nonetheless.

[Normandy_Corsair]

@PyroAddict

The F/A-18s radar is better than the F-15As to start with?

Marginally, yes. Both are going to easily hold a PD lock so long as the target does not notch.

@PyroAddict

so the F/A-18 is better by sheer nose authority to get IR locks without radar slave?

Are we just going to ignore the giant FM difference where the F-15 obviously wins? The F-15 basically cannot lose this fight assuming both pilots play correctly and the F-15 pilot does not play the one circle game. What is the point in bringing up IR locks as well? Do you think a 9L secures a kill here?

[kizvy]

Mirage 4K is essentially old fm mirage 2k. It’s just worse than the 15a other than top speed.
Especially its radar, it’s so bad.
Sarh missiles are slight better for side grade ir missiles

[Von_Valinor]

I don’t know if you have the French grinded… But if you do, and you have the opportunity to spadinng the mirage 4k.
Do this (if you want) and then tell us about your experience.
You’ll most likely change your mind.
In theory it’s a good plane, in practice it’s one of the worst 13.0s, I think it’s only worse than the Sea Harrie FA 2.
Edit: He’s good near targets, but you have exactly two turns to get your target; otherwise, you’re gonna die.

[PyroAddict]

@Normandy Corsair

Marginally, yes. Both are going to easily hold a PD lock so long as the target does not notch.

This is not marginal. An F/A-18 does not lose illumination to its sparrows like this

Downplay it if you wish, I don’t care. Gaijin will probably tone down the F-15A nonetheless. And even then, the A hornets should go to 12.7 too. They could perfectly be sidegrades with different playstyles if they remove its 9Ms on the F-15A.

@Normandy Corsair

Are we just going to ignore the giant FM difference where the F-15 obviously wins?

In a BR range where PD radars and medium range SARH missiles, flight performance becomes a sizeable gap to overcome, at least up until 13.7 where fox-3s begin to require fast planes and powerful radars to make them work. It’s not like the levels of FM or performance gaps between a P-47D against a A6M3, or a F-104 against a Yak-23.

@Normandy Corsair

The F-15 basically cannot lose this fight assuming both pilots play correctly and the F-15 pilot does not play the one circle game.

You may have a point on the textbook 1v1, the problem with the F-15A is that it cannot play its strengths conventionally within GRB lobbies. Chances are you are getting easily 3rd partied by going vertical and energy fighting.