At the least, AIM-9Ms has “minor” variants just like AIM-9P-4 so, for the F-14Bs we currently have in the game, Gaijin can give us the AIM-9M-6/AIM-9M-7 that is already modeled, and for the F-14Ds, add AIM-9M-8 that has better seeker.
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It is meta defining. Just because it usually misses doesn’t stop it from being powerful. It allows one player to pressure multiple opponents simultaneously. It’s not hard to dodge the phoenix but you need to respect the missile and give up position. This is a potent force multiplier effect, and in other games this kind of behavior is generally referred to as “zoning” your opponents. The phoenix barrage breaks up the cohesion of the enemy force and makes it easier for them to be destroyed piecemeal.
The ONLY factor keeping the meta warping phoenix in check is that mixed matchmaking causes the same number of tomcats to be present on both teams on average.
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If there was no mixed match maker the f14 would have been nerfed a long time ago.
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becuase f-4s is trash lmfao shouldn’t go against f-14 or any up tier. it should stay it tier being up tier or down tier is dumb should only play that br.
F-4S has a similar radar, same missile weapons, same countermeasures.
The only downside of F-4S over F-14A is its slightly worse dogfight performance; and the fact F-4S can’t frag enemy drones with the worst ARH in the game.
It can however frag drones and fighters with AIM-7F.
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*Laugh in F-4J(UK)'s cockpit
I can agree that Phantoms might have a pain in the ass during the fight against F-14 (or the rest of 4th gens which have scare missile ammunition than F-14 but better movements) because it is Phantom. isn’t it?
Still, the F-4S is one of the Best Phantom in this game Thanks to PD radar with HMD(well, I heard VTAS HMS of Phantom is not useful compared to HMD in 4th gen, but still it is HMS. right?), and AIM-7F which have longer than AIM-7E-2/Skyflash in counterparts.
only F-4EJ kai with better radar from F/A-18 can beat F-4S in catalogue spec.
F-4S might be even better than F-4EJ Kai if we consider BR a factor for having a lower chance of being up-tier and facing less advanced jets than EJ Kai.
If we decompress the BR, F-4S should be 12.3 and placed between F-4K/M/J(UK) [FG.1/FGR.2/F.3] in 12.0 and F-14A on 12.7
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Something is indeed off about trying to acquire radar locks with the HMD. I’ve got footage lying around of it consistently failing to acquire locks against the AI bombers in arcade air assault mode, meanwhile boresight ACM mode instantly acquires lock. It’s annoying but easy to work around once you learn to just make use of boresight ACM whenever possible.
The F-4S is a very good premium. The only plane that I feel is absolutely unfair to fight against is the F-15A and its copy-paste exports in other trees.
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The F4S as it sits right now is i think 4th best phantom in game after the kai, Kurnass( not sure now its got no sahr missiles) and the F4F ICE, it has a combination of a HMD, 6 aim7Fs, 4 aim9Hs, agile eagle, a decent gun, and ofc decent thrust, though it is still a phantom, it is objectively better than almost any other BR 12.0 in the game and is still one of the best prems to buy if you know how high BR works.
i use my mirage F1 200 quite often and F14s with pheonixes never take me out as i know how to avoid them, but you can bet an F4S throwing an aim7F.
the F4S should realistically if we get more decompression be 12.3 above the F4JUK and FGR2 and FG1 etc
I think it isn’t slightly but feels significant but I agree with your point this time.
if we only sees weaponry, F-4S seems traded 0.3BR with two AIM-9G (F-14 can mount two AIM-9G ‘With’ 6 AIM-54A or AIM-7F but F-4S can’t)
it seems a bargain trade for me.
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True. ~17 degrees per second can feel significantly better than 14.5 degrees per second.
Its not a “feels” thing, the F-14 is objectively superior in a rate (2C) and radius (1C) fight. With proper management of energy you can break 25 degrees per second and maintain well over 18 degrees per second indefinitely. And yes, the F-14 can do one-circle fights, it’s just not optimized for that.
The F-4 can rate too, but it makes circles the size of texas at optimal speeds. Then somebody slower can just sit inside your circle and never go in front of you. And forget about one-circle fights in the phantom. You’ll get one, maybe two good pulls and then be down to stall speeds.
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Yeah…
Despite the that AIM-54 might be the worst ARH in this game, it is still an ARH Missile and still can pressure multiple opponents…
While no other planes in 11.3~12.7 have any ARH missiles. because there are no counterparts of AIM-54 in the rest of the nations in this game. right?
As a non-American main, things about F-14 escalate rapidly when Matchmaker gives a non-mixed match like the [USA versus World] type of match sometimes. I meant a match which has F-14s on a single side only.
F-14A spams Phoenix in high ground, frags much of planes with none~awful RWR like F1C or J35XS
With exaggeration, the F-14’s first AIM-54 strike obliterates nearly 30% of the enemy. even 50% sometimes maybe?
then they go back to the airfield while F-4S holds up and buying times, comes back with a 6x AIM-7F loadout to finish the futile resistance by remnants of the enemy.
If both teams have F-14, it feels balanced somehow.
But if only one team has an F-14, we can see the tides leaning in the F-14 team’s favour (unless the F-14 player’s ability is not disastrous).
I felt the experience was very exhausting and disappointing, which eventually ended up in reduced playing top-rank jets.
Honestly, I think F-14’s influence on the battle by being able to use AIM-54 is a little bit over the top.
Maybe without mixed matchmaking, the F-14 would have had a nerf because “the performance was too good.” well, in Gaijin’s theory they usually nerf plane with statistics only. right?
However, since the F-14 was released in the ‘Danger Zone’ update, they have never been nerfed in BR except for ‘BR adjustment because of BR decompressing’.
Edit: forgot to say.
At least, current 11.3BR planes like F-4EJ, F-104S, J35XS, and Sea Harrier FRS.1 should have physically separated from F-14A.
Decompressing BR is best but we also can consider nerfing F-14 if Gaijin doesn’t care about Decompression. :'(
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Pressure is a scale and not really an on and off thing. The Phoenix for sure adds pressure but (at least to me) its minimal pressure, its like a mosquito trying to bite me; its there but I just shrug it off. I understand that people don’t know tactics and such but I think that’s more of a premium problem and their failure to adapt
I don’t play the J35XS all that much but from a Mirage F1C perspective, it still has options to shrug off the Phoenix even if you rush middle of the map full afterburner as I’ve proven before. As long as the plane has some sort of RWR that can detect a lock, that’s all you really need.
You don’t need precise RWRs to notch, what I do to easily notch is just assume the position of the enemy by visually confirming the Phoenix’s launch (long ass smoke trail) referencing it on the map and flying perpendicular by flying parallel to the horizontal grid lines or whatever reference I use.
This is a pretty inaccurate assumption. From my experience doing this Phoenix spam technique, after the Phoenix salvos returning to base makes you so vulnerable and I’m surprised no one tries to capitalize on this. I know in my MiG-23ML I can easily capitalize on this because the MiG-23ML is an extremely fast plane at altitude so even before the F-14A touches the airfield, I’m there and hunting them down.
Also the process of landing, re-arming, and taking off again leaves your team at a numbers disadvantage sometimes since you’re not physically there to apply pressure and so like 40% of the time when you take off, you’re alone against like 5 people.
Gaijin historically refrains from artificially nerfing aircraft unless its a historical nerf or something really small. Even with the Gripen all the nerfs were historical, it was overperforming massively.
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@Stockholm_Blend
Guys…
Lowest speed rate test of F-4S vs anti-fighter F-14A:
F-4S is 12.2 degrees per second.
F-14A is 15.1 degrees per second with the same AB fuel of slightly over 7 minutes.
Not as much of an improvement as I thought.
Granted this is also not their 550kph turn rates which are a bit higher for both.
And AIM-54 attached? lol
I think the Phantoms themselves are fine due to the RWRs.
J35XS and F-104S should be the same BR as F-4F standard IMO.
Damn 47m of fuel is only 7mins of afterburner? Jesus.
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maybe American and Israel F-4E are fine with the current BR thanks to their advanced RWR
but not with F-4EJ. they are having far worse domestic J/APR-2.
Bruh not even that. The F-4EJ doesn’t get agile eagle, and E-2s its for sure worse than the F-4E.
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What happens when the TSFC is 2.72 and produces a bit more thrust.
That and dry-thrust its TSFC is 0.66 vs F-4’s 0.95.
Thrust Specific Fuel Consumption.
forgot to say that F-4EJ can’t access AIM-7E-2 and has no slats. Xd
Thanks.
it really is inferior Phantom compared to the American F-4E or Israel F-4E Kurnass
A lot of people are very quick to offhandly dismiss the phoenix as a “skill check” missile. This is a narrowminded and shortsighted way to view the phoenix. The kills don’t matter. It’s the influence that you place on how people maneuver that matters.
I shared a gameplay clip with a friend of mine the other day. It was a 1v4 of me in the AV-8B+ vs a mig-21 Bison, F-4S, and two mirages. The battle opened with me sending one AIM-120 at all of them. This scattered them to the winds and provided an opening for me to quickly mop them up one by one with guns and 9M’s. The point of the story is that every single AMRAAM missed. Every single one. They passed the skill checks, and yet the AMRAAMs were invaluable in me winning the engagement. They broke up the enemy’s cohesion and provided openings to pick them apart that wouldn’t have been present had I been armed with Fox-1s.
Phoenixes are largely the same. Phoenixes have an easier skill-check to pass than the AMRAAM, but the act of passing that skill-check has its own heavy costs associated with them. Costs in time, energy, and positioning. Just because the opponent can meet the missile’s skill check doesn’t mean that the missile didn’t win you the match.
It’s not hard to dodge the phoenix, but you are forced to respect it. This wastes your time and forces you to give up your position. The majority of the pressure isn’t on you dodging the missile. The more immediately lethal threat is faced by people who aren’t being targeted by phoenixes who are now outnumbered when the teams merge because their wingmen have been forced to breakaway from the pack to defend against phoenixes. The numbers advantage snowballs from there.
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