Last time i tried to fly 23MLA the radar wasnt even nerfed, it was borderline bugged, refusing to lock.
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Mica also lacks a lot of range compared to the aim120s as it blows itself out thrust vectoring.
The micas are incredible missiles, in close range.
However if you stay out of the MAR which you can do even in a the JAS39C with R darters them the rafale suddenly becomes less of a problem.
The ef2000 hell even f15e has caused me substantially more issues with the 120s as it puts you defensive long before you are within range. The mica is completely negated if you stay outwith its range, the R77-1 is I believe on par now with the Aim120.
So the EF 2000 is better in every regard in FM and speed? and only falls short on the radar department?
That makes no sense, if the EF2000 as you say is better Fm wise, then how is it not easier to survive in the 16v16 chaos?
how even?
How are you flying over the enemy without knowing they are there…
That cause the MICA has thrust vectoring, which if you are in close engagements with, can use against it, if you get the rafale ( or anyother Thrust vectoring missile carrier) low enough speed it massively hampers the missiles launch and can cause it to basically spin out.
Unless they patched that but as far as ive seen, they haven’t.
To be fair to it, its top speed on teh deck is what 1.22? ish, however to attain that you have to go full swept wing and also take the time to dive / accelerate to it, in which time you lose almost all ability to manuevere like an 11.7 air craft and turn into a flying brick.
I mean the MTi mode is incredibly situational its not as if its suddenly MTI, which can insta lock enemies, it also is a pretty sh*t radar overall.
72CMs as well as more thrust so even sometimes an R60 or 9L will creep through (depending if you flare properly or not)
No it wont.
See this is where the argument falls apart to be able to turn with most enemies you sacrifice the ability to go fast
The FM changes mean even with a 65 percent wing sweep its still a struggle to keep up with stuff like the F4E or F5Es.
You can slam its wings to 85 and try bleed them of energy but this too has the drawbacks of you lose more dogfight capabilities.
Than what? specifically.
WDYM like what? the F16A, mirage 2000C S4, the F20A last I checked.
The big thing you keep over looking is the fact that the Mig 23 sacrifices all other aspects of its FM to move fast, it cannot turn at all.
yeah realised that after I put it in that it was looking at GRB but wasn’t able to change it was teaching.
J7E has a better gun, less ammo. has 2 less but more reliable missiles/ and is far more controllable at its higher end speeds than the mig23M, ML and MLD.
See, you keep adding these three together, when if you want the Mig23 to go fast you have to sacrifice its ability to turn, ive no idea why you keep acting as if its going mach 1.22 and can turn
It does genuinely refuse to lock ive had folks in thr mti mode, and on the shoot down aspect and refuse.to lock, acm, scanning and actively trying to get it to lock.
Its a nightmare to function ive had more luck with r60s over r24s.
The mig29 with the r27ers but is a totally different ballgame
well folks tell me its suffering, in ARB ive reliably seen them rinse lobbies so its a hit or miss i reckon
The extra range is not useful if your target has lots of time to react and notch. That’s why I said the mica is the best within high PK ranges, gives the less time to react.
MAR is irrelevant when you can reliably notch missiles. Furthermore I won’t be launching micas outside of the MAR to begin with. I can just fly sideways being defensive all the time with the rafale against a aim120 spammer and whenever he gets close I just HOBS a mica into him and keep notching. That’s doable with every modern fox3 except the aim120 itself.
Based on…? Because the 7P is a IOG+DL missile and the hornet radar is the best at the BR with the smallest notch angles.
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It has TWS+6 Sparrows and gets 11.7 games most of the time haha
personal anecdote so not worth much but i dont find them that hard to notch? idk maybe the people i play against pick really bad aspects
Well other planes can’t even get there in a full dive from 10,000 meters so it’s going pretty good relatively.
The 23 probably outruns the R60M without even having to flare tbh.
That’s kind of the amazing thing about it, the 23 cannot be pressured by 90% of planes. If an enemy turns into you and engages and let’s say they have the advantage in position (Behind, or 45-75’ to the side but behind coming in) and he is at 2.5-3km, they will never get closer due to their speed, so any firing window is non-existent.
You can actually mimic something close with the MiG-21Bis and F4E, the F4E is like 30-40kph faster, so unless the 21’ started within 2.4km it cant really fire any R60M’s. Basically you just run away for 5 minutes and they can never do anything.
Who cares? The enemy is bleeding everything too but worse… you have best of both worlds. The F5E is great, but it will never catch the 23 in the first place. That’s why the plane is so oppressive, it can choose to out run, catch or turn in basically any scenario.
Why do you keep supporting my argument by posting planes that are literally an entire BR above it.
The 2000C was the 23MLD in the past. It used to be 11.7 when F16A’s were 12.0. Now it is equal to them and even above the 9L slingers. Out run anybody, catch anybody and 2 auto kill missiles. Sounds familiar.
You seem to think that expanding the wings takes like 2 minutes roflmao and that the planes it is facing in 80% of battles are somehow amazing turners in their own right. Bonus points, If you have to notch you have already given up the position… it’s not a merge (they would win anyway) they already are starting from a superior position because you had to move around.
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No it doesn’t.
Its doing okay but again you sacrifice its maneuverability and capabilities massively for speed.
Also likely to wing rip
So play it like an f104 and have next.to no match impact.
Theres also 16v16 going on here.
Like im trying to say the mig23 isnt what it used to be at all, arguably the MLD could get a selector for mti and go to 12.0.
Are you intentionally being obtuse ?
The f4e has the same sustained rate as the smt.
Infact the f4e beats the MIG29 SMT in sustained rate, unless they updated the mig29 fms to reduce drag coefficients.
Even fully swept the mig 23 still doesnt just blow these planes away, if someone comes in maintaining mach 0.95 and forces you to maneuver at all, you bleed an astronomical amount of speed, unless you sweep your wings to about 65-80 degree area for beijg able to actually merge and fight affectively.
Going full wing sweep i only use for baiting people to chase.
Its not an effective way to play overall
12.3 is not an entire BR above it at all, you regularly see them, f18s and mig29s.
The wings doesnt take long to extend but they do cause you to have to actually slow down you cant go above mach 1.10 roughly below 80 degrees.
Which again turns the flogger into a delta over a capable dog fighter.
Im not saying mig23s are bad, but im saying theyre not some uber weapon folks seem to think they are 🤣
You also seem to be overlooking, mixed teams make it so even if you try to extend away theres always another Flogger near by.
Id 100 percent rather use the F4E or even the mig29 over the mig23 again, theyre spaded and left in the hanger.
I wish, but R-60s tailchase ability is outright bad outside extremely close range
Unless the dudes just flitting past then he wont out run it.
If you are slotting in behind them like youre supposed to, the dude has two options, fly straight and take an r60 up the tail pipe.
Now mind you hed have to be going max speed before hand for it to not catch him.
And if he is going max speed like mach 1.22 then you wouldn’t have a chance to get a proper launch solution.
However, as I’ve stated above too many times.now on an F18 post, the mig23 sacrifices maneuverability for speed it cant have both now.
Oh im not disputing all that, i wanted to talk about R-60 specifically.
I personally wouldnt bother with R-60 launch at target thats beyond 1.2km unless i have massive energy advantage
For some odd reason it appears to work at about 1.8 for me on the mig21 and up.
Might just be good launches though
Yeah R60s are a bit brutal to get used to, imagine mig29 had aim9G range IR missiles
Double rack for R-13M1s on Mig-23 would do it for me.
Wouldnt mind that man sounds fun TBH
Yeah provided the radar gets fixed id be prolly the best overall jet for that BR
If the radar gets fixed its worth noting it would be 12.0 TBH
Why would you write this and give up the goose that you don’t understand sarcasm, you’re meant to make it challenging.
This would only be true if it didn’t have r24r/t’s or the ability to 1v1 people in the late game easily. Something a 104 has neither off.
You also have all-aspect r60m, even though they are very bad, the airframe on 104 even worse and the non-L slinging versions can’t launch against enemies with 50iq so the 23 comes out here too.
That’s the exact context of my all replies, standard air rb match 16v16.
If you are in an F4E you don’t try and rate fight a mig-21 BIS (my previous example) that will take 50 turns and be 50/50 so you get third partied anyway, you fly away… something that the MiG23 can do against every single enemy and not just by 10-30kph as was my F4E example.
Why is a slower peanut plane going to come in on you
mig29 is 12.7 and f18a is not the premium with better missiles/iog. The hornet is only a 1300kph slowboat, see that’s the tradeoff. It is super slow but has other things going for it, fair.
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The F18A should really be 12.7 as well as the F16A.
They have no business being 12.3.
the only thing the Mig23 even MLD does better than a hornet is straight line speed, even accelerating to mach 1 the F18A will beat it…
Again like I said in context of the ARB matches.
You are acring like the mig23 all variants are not flawed in different ways.
What? the bis you can beat in about 4 turns in an F4E you knwo that as well as I do, the Mig21s are dlying air breaks.
It cant though… the Mig23 cannot rate fight the same way an F4E does, the Mig23 actively loses more energy turning, even if you net G it to keep some speed, the F4E will always keep more in the same sustained turn.
The mig23s acceleration isnt that high to pull it out of that im sorry to tell you.
Its better than mig21s, and itll have a better instantanious turn than an F4E, if you fold the wings out but that means sacrificing the speed advantage.
You cant do both , at all.
As well as this, like i stated the mig23’s used to be absolutely potent planes, now adays they arent at all. they rely mostly on the missiles and the FM is the after thought.