The first supersonic IR missile carrier with HMD is 12.7 (MiG-21 BISON) with 2 missiles and an 11.3 airframe. The F-4S is 12.0 with 9Js (i think,) which is a missile difference which easily justifies a 0.7 Br increase. Keep in mind the F-4EJ Kai with Aim-9Ls is already 12.3, without dogfight slats or HMD.
Edit: corrected incorrect information
9H
It would need to, but I know gaijin would only put it to 12.3. Currently the Phantom F.3 is at 12.0, without the wing slats, HMD, AIM-7F (Has SkyTrash though), worse IR missiles, the F-4S should already realistically be .7 above it, with decompression, .3 without, so yes, adding AIM-9L to an already under BR’d aircraft would necessitate a .7 BR raise. And that’s without going into ground pound ordnance. The F-4M/K are the same although they have Speys which are a little help to make them competitive.
Ok, just NO. The MiG-23M is at 11.3 with the R-23T and the R-60M. Both are All aspect IR missiles and found on a supersonic airframe. Not to mention the other MiG-23s after it that are all before 12.7.
The MiG-21-93 Bison has IRCCM AND thrust vectoring R-73s, not just an all aspect upgrade.
Furthermore, the F-4EJ Kai has an F-16s radar, making it much more potent and effective with its Aim-7F/M usage. However yes it lacks the Radar HMD mode, the ability to slave IR missiles to an HMD, and agile eagle slats. But the slat difference currently means nothing to gaijin, or they would have placed the F-4J at a lower BR than the F-4S as they are otherwise near identical despite that one difference (and the Aim-9H over the Aim-9J). The other difference would have been Aim-9L compatibility, but you are seemingly against its historical correction in that regard.
The F-4S with the addition of the Aim-9L would result in a simple step BR increase, not two steps as you seem to think.
It doesn’t need it being honest, nowadays the F-4S with 5x AIM-7F and 2x AIM-9H is very potent
Half shameless plug to the Phantom suggestions I made for this exact reason
F-4S/L with AIM-9L and AIM-7M
F-4E/L with AIM-9L and AIM-7M, also featuring AGM-65Ds and AGM-45s
It would appear i forgot to add the words “with HMD” to that post. I will correct it.
Even a single br increase would mean being uptiered into MiG-29SMT, AMRAAM Tornado, and a bunch of extremely strong airframes with IRCCM missiles. While you still have only PD HDN mode and whole 4 AIM-9L. Oh, and don’t forget weak RWR and only 60 countermeasures. And a flight performance of a brick.
The significantly inferior F-4EJ Kai without HMD, dogfight slats, and with a worse strike armarment selection, sits at 12.3. The F-4S, if equipped with AIM-9Ls, would be far better than the EJ KAI, and thus a higher BR.
Guys FGR series should recieve Aim-9L’s, not F4S.
That’s a more valid point ye.
The F-4S we have is a premium and represents and early variant of the plane. Better keep it like that ( tho the bombing bots will cope that 9L would make the plane that they play wrong in the first place better lol)
HMD but a worse radar. So a good enough tradoff to be at the same BR.
Just lmao. Both have their upsides and downsides. The F-4EJ Kai has a far more reliable/better radar and has an internal gunpod, meaning it won’t have to carry a gunpod that reduces the flight performance a bit.
The 4S and EJ Kai would pretty much be sidegrades, and thus could easily be the same BR.
Buuut the EJ Kai also doesn’t have Agile Eagle slats, reducing flight performance even more…
I think the only real issue to giving the S aim-9Ls would be that the BR would have to go up and put new players in a spot where they will have zero idea on how to play(pretty much like now but throwing them up vs ARH slingers where they literally have no idea how they died)
It’s currently probably a bit lower than it should be thanks to player stats and compression so giving AIM-9Ls is just gonna Bork it.
I’d like to see the F-4J get AIM-9Ls if it’s possible, people using that thing tend to be better players then the ones using the S.
The F-4J never had them, only the F-4S, which is kind of why this topic seems to exist.
Honestly, I don’t see any problems for Navy Phantoms and British Phantoms gets AIM-9Ls especially BR was decompressed a bit in last few month ago.
They should be decent counterpart to the F-4EJ Kai, but before they get the AIM-9L, it is necessary to give them better IRAAM against some aircraft, like the F-14A/B, to move them to a higher BR.
Brother, it’s a Phantom. You ain’t gonna win a dogfight at this br against most of the competition anyway, slats or no slats.
Idk I won a dogfight against a MiG-29 in my F-4J one time (in sim) (he crashed into the ground)
In theory the F-4J did get them (I believe some were in service as late as the mid-80s) BUT given as the F-4S is just the F-4J but better in practically every way I think they should just give them to the F-4S (and put one in the tree please)
He mean F-4J (UK) Phantom F.3 from premium tree armed AIM-9L
For me, USN F-4J from USA tech tree in 70’s post-war vietnam (3 years after vietnam war)