Makes sense to me. F-5E FCU/SCU has Python 3s at 11.3 so F-16A Netz should go down to 11.3
F-4J should not go down, but I agree that the MiG-23 mld is better than it, and it is stupidly undertiered
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Well, it is weird that in-game people agree that F-4J should go down to 11.7 but in the forums people disagree. I cannot understand how can you think F-4J is at its correct BR when F-4J faces FOX-3s, every other plane have All-Aspect missiles while F-4J have AIM-9G. I really do not see any useful feature of F-4J that allows it to perform at that BR; it is not a good fighter, bad FOX-1, average FOX-2.
Anyways, to me giving the AIM-9Ls to F-4J will give the F-4J the opportunity to fight back, but this post will change nothing and for my mental health I’m gonna skip F-4J since it is only a source of stress.
You are exclusively looking at the F-4J vs uptiers. 12.0-13.0 is a total mess at the moment and very little actually performs correctly when facing an uptier.
(though, the US F-4J and F-4S both have comprable SARH to a lot of aircraft in the 12.0-12.7 range as Aim-7Fs are near identical (if not actually identical) meanwhile the UK F-4s (FGR2, FG1, F4J) only have Aim-7E-2 (equivalent), the same SARH found on the F-4E at 11.3, so out of all the F-4s at 12.0, the US ones are some of the strongest)
But instead look at the other side of the coin. As it stands, there are several 11.0s that really should not be facing Aim-7F and equivalent aircraft, like the AMX A-1A, Sea Harrier, F-104G, etc etc. Let alone 10.7 aircraft that you are proposing. Several at 10.7 have terrible RWRs that would not be able to compete in an uptier. It would be the same for them as it is for the F-4J to face something with Fox-3s.
So no, the F-4J (an Aim-7F equipped aircraft with PD radar) belongs at 12.0, its the ideal aircraft for that BR.
Buffs such as Aim-9Ls would more than likely increase its BR to 12.3. Reduction in BR would have to require the removal of Aim-7Fs and replace them with Aim-7E-2s.
The better thing to advocate for is an increase in BR for things like the F-18s, F-16s, Mig-29s, F-15A, Gripen A and some of the Fox-3 slingers
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in-game chat poeple agreed that F-4J should get AIM-9L without the need to move it up to 12.3, but I’ll worry no more since I’ll stop playing it
1- Did you ask it to fellow F-4J/S pilots in-game?
2- Don’t you dare think that agreeing in-game automatically guarantees agreeing in the forum too. We aren’t them, and they aren’t we. Even though we all play the same game, everyone thinks differently.
You should’ve convinced us differently instead of ‘but they agreed with me! (So you are wrong!)’
And… why is that relevant? My Dad said the Gripen should go to 9.7, does that mean it should?
The F-4S/J getting 9Ls would increase it to 12.3 as that is why the F-4EJ Kai is 12.3.
I wonder how 9L will allow F-4J to fight back? Front aspect or side aspect it is as flarable as any other missile, and rear aspect you already have 9G/H. Main missile of an F-4J is a Sparrow, sidewinders are supplementary. Giving it 9L won’t fix a single problem. Learning how to correctly use Sparrows will.
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They will say/agreed to anything if it hurts whatever they are angry at.
Okay. One less f4 player i have to worry about spamming out all of their aim7s on the first target they see.
The F-4J doesn’t have AIM-9Ls because it’s not 12.7 [12.3 for American mains].
AIM-9G is a strong rear aspect AAM.
AIM-7F is a top 5 SARH missile on a radar as strong as the F-14’s.
The only way F-4J moves to 11.7 is if all 12.0s in the game move with it, and Mig-23s move down to 11.3; something I oppose.
F-4J is among the best 12.0s in the game.
F-4J has correct ordnance in-game.
Just because you prefer different ordnance doesn’t mean the existing ordnance isn’t correct.
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Forums users aren’t exactly free if bias either.
you mean 12.3 with a better radar for japanese mains
F-4EJ Kai is a much better comparison because it has the same flight model, and the same missile load with the exception of aim9l instead of aim9g
F-4EJ Kai also has the benefit of no agile eagle to reduce its sustained turn rate [more energy bleed].
Granted, EJ Kai is now stuck due to F-18s being OP, and 13.0 having 11? 14? under-BR’d vehicles.
F-4J doesnt have wing slats either
they have the same flight model
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Fair.
FGR2 and F-4J are the best 12.0s at 12.0, but the fact a 13.0 fighter sits at 12.3 [F-18A] because the Mirage 4000, Su-27, F-15A, etc sit at 13.0 is incredibly annoying.
f18a absolutely does not have 13.0 performance, it isnt fast enough, and doesnt have enough missiles for that br to compensate for its speed
additionally the types of missiles it has are not good for 13.0
I could see it at 12.7 but it is not 13.0 material
F-14B and F-18A are using the same anti-fighter weapons, while performing similarly.
F-14B, F-14A IRIAF, and 14 other 13.0s to 12.7 because they’re using weapons worse than 11 13.0s.
Speed doesn’t matter as much as thrust to weight.
are you quoting the AI overview
Yes, F-4J pilots agreed with me, F-4S kept quiet, UK Phantoms also agreed with me, the rest some people was neutral others said that it was good when they played it several updates ago
Well, you people are stubborn and hold to their opinion because it has a strong feature like HMS and it automatically makes F-4J OP; in that case F-106A should be moved to 12.0 because it has HMS as F-4J according to the resoning of these people, since no matter what ordnance a plane has good/bad if it has HMS it atuomatically makes any plane OP.
Well, so let’s remove all All-aspect missiles 'cause all are flareable event R-73s, AIM-9Ms, etc…
Is that your logic?
I have scored kills launching an R-60M or an AIM-9L (when I was playing the A-10A Late) where in the time it takes for the missile to reach the enemy, the enemy turns around to a point where the missile loses track of the heat source and that is where the all-aspect feature of a missile comes into play.
just as an example in a match playing with F-4J, I shoot an AIM-9G to a SU-33 who either ran out of flares or was distracted, he turned quickly enough normally or with AoA and my AIM-9G lost the track of the heat signature, if in that case F-4J had AIM-9L I’d have scored the kill.
I strongly agree, I loved it in my AV-8C, I snipe too many kills even at uptiers, but at 12.0 has no use, planes are faster, more maneuverability, people are more used to their planes features and more aware
Well, there are not many 12.0 planes, but maybe you played F-4J in a good time, but times change and it has become pretty outdated to that BR, people in-game says that Tornado is even worse that F-4J/S and for that I cannot say, I do not own the Tornado. But a think is sure, everytime I see a phantom they tend to be the first ones to die. Coincidence? everyone is “Skill issue”? or currently F-4s are just terrible and has no use at such high BR.
Well, F-4J had access to AIM-9G, Ds, Hs and Ls
Only if they give it Aim-7F equivalent in the Form of Skyflash SuperTEMPs, otherwise its not even the strongest 12.0 Britain can provide. The Tornado F3 dunks on it all day long.