I would still question the 11.3 rating considering low sub-sonic speed and only 2x AAMs and not even a radar for IFF.
There is no way the AMX A-1A Should be considered on par with the Sea Harrier FRS1 (11.0/11.3 RB/SB but should be 11.0 in both) let alone the Mig-23MLD (11.7/11.3 RB/SB)
F-4F with AIM-9J would be “historical” if the plane was in the US tree.
“But they trained with them” while in the US. Germany didn’t use AIM-9J on their Phantoms on German soil/above European airspace.
“They probably would have been given them if the cold war went hot”
A “probably” isn’t good enough.
*One Canadian vehicle. CanADATS is there because Warrior ADATS is harder to find sources on, and Gaijin is too lazy to do the Warrior VERDI and STARSTREAK properly.
Germany doesn’t need a subtree. They have way more than enough already.
Ito 90 is copypasta for the sake of laziness, it can and should be replaced with Crotale NG on a tracked hull. Tigre HAP should have AGM-114K.
Do note how the Tigre gets worse alternate weapons while the Germans got better alternate weapons.
Britain has multiple Canadian vehicle in air, ground and naval.
thats not a requirement lol
germany used their german phantoms they aquired with aim 9j in the us
your are being ridiculous
germany has as many possible options as the UK and france
but here we are with UK having 2 sub trees and getting critical stuff from australia and canada,
france as well benelux and netherlands major equipment
neither of those 2 nations need a subtree for anytthing
what u even talking about educate yourself the HAP is unable to carry hellfires as well, that came only with the HAD upgrade.
france found it smart to give their initial tiger only dumb ammunition with ballistics computer
its supposed to be a light support and escort duty variant not anti tank
Do note how u apparantly have no idea about the eurocopter and its history as well as capability
get over your german hate, you are embarrasing yourself
uh- did the Skink, 3.7 OQF Ram, HMCS Terra Nova, HMCS Haida, HMCS Brantford and even the upcoming Ram II cease to exist?
Heck Prendergast’s Spitfire is technically Canadian as it is an RCAF pilot. (I believe there is a bug report to fix the operator nation)
Yeah i knew why i didnt even bother calling him out on it 😂
HAP should only have access to mistrals and rocket pods. No ATGMs can be used.
All of those kinda obviously should be in the UK tree, only an idiot grasping at straws would go and say “this vehicle from the era of the British empire shouldn’t be fighting under their banner”.
Huh, today I learned. Then it should get a significant BR reduction to compensate.
No, they’ve literally got a ton of stuff yet to be added, and only the UK had reason to get western aligned commonwealth stuff. France didn’t need BeNeLux, and Germany doesn’t need Swiss. None of the Big 3 need subtrees.
So then it should be a US premium too then, clearly.
Hate? I just don’t want Germany to continue getting special treatment when other nations are neglected heavily. They’ve gotten special treatment multiple times before. They’re still getting it. They will still likely get it in the future.
Germany mains so used to getting special treatment that once people started calling Snail out on it, forcing them to start giving everyone the special treatment they start crying bloody murder “you HATE germany now” lemao
HMCS Terra Nova is a domestic cold war boat with no relation to the British Empire. As Canada was legally a fully independent nation by then.
But either way, your argument was that they only had one Canadian vehicle when that isn’t the case as those shows, with most of them being built by Canada, making them Canadian.
And because you want to argue “empire” I’m going to need to point out that, with the Statute of Westminster in 1931 had given the Dommions full legal independence. This means Canada & the other dominions could have told the UK no and stayed out of WW2. It’s also the foundation of the modern Commonwealth(so your “British empire” argument can just as easily be used with the ADATS)
Germany’s “special treatment” is the same as everybody else’s, i.e they get a certain type of weapon if they really need it, or not, if they don’t, there are also times where this “treatment” is used to make Germany’s AFVs worse than they should actually be, example(s) being;
Actually, apart from the 9J and R-27ER, can you name me any other instance where Gaijin has treated Germany “better” (i.e by giving them a weapon system they never used, never tested, was never compatible) than other nations?
And before you go and slag off about FlaRakRad having VT-1s - Germany did in fact plan on using it, and even paid money to Euromissile to begin integrating it into the Roland system used by the Luftwaffe and made some good progress on that until Thales went apepoo and sued Euromissile for that, Germany gave up on VT-1 after that. So at least there is justification to Germany having VT-1.
On the other hand, we’ve the SAAF Gripen C over here flying with all sorts of weapons that it never had, and you don’t see anybody complain about their “special treatment” for some reason.
Germany mains so used to getting special treatment that once people started calling Snail out on it
People started “calling out” the Snail on giving Germany AIM-9Js, which at the end of the day, is fair, but at the same time they also completely rejected the idea of the F-4F Late getting AIM-9Ls because “it would be too strong”.
Here’s a fun fact: the only missiles the F-4F could actually use after the 1983 upgrade were AIM-9Ls and its upgrades (9Li and 9Li-1), their rails were no longer compatible with their existing AIM-9Fs, so no matter how you slice it;
So, to get this straight, Germany getting the 9J is preferential treatment, but if they were to get the 9L they actually used, the community would moan about Germany receiving a missile that’s “too strong” and wouldn’t shut up about Germany ‘being better’ (again, I am talking in reference to the state of the game 2 - 3 years back), the community can never be pleased when it comes to Germany.
Then it should get a significant BR reduction to compensate.
This is just pure irony.
Case in point:
Gaijin then settled on lowering F-4F’s BR by 0.3 (from 11.0 to 10.7).
forcing them to start giving everyone the special treatment
France’s Tiger HAP had been making use of this “special” treatment before and for much longer than Germany’s F-4F Early and Late, then, seeing as it was added to the game in September of 2019 with HOT-3s, whereas F-4F Early was only aded in March of 2021. So it seems like Germany was simply a follow up to France’s special treatment ;)
They’re still getting it
Lmao.
There’s a decent amount of context as to why people didn’t want more AIM-9L at the time that you assume was just “ree germnone bad”.
Again, don’t hate Germany. Just want the special exceptions to stop. Y’all can keep on screeeeeching about not getting special exceptions as often anymore though. Doesn’t matter to me.
For once we agree lol, there are some contenders for outliers that really feel overpowered but for the most part its just an excuse
i do
So should it have gotten the AIM-9F instead? A missile that it could no longer make use of due to incompatible railing and thus would be just as inaccurate as AIM-9J? On top of the fact that, at the very least, the F-4F Late also has never ever used the 9F post-upgrade, so on the basis of “muuuh historical accuracy reee” argument that so many of you love to use, it would be just as much of an inaccuracy as it using 9Js.
Either we go historical or we go balance. You can’t eat the cake and have the cake.
Y’all can keep on screeeeeching about not getting special exceptions as often anymore though.
We don’t and literally never have (at least us that aren’t one-nation mains, i.e we play more than just Germany). You’re actively delusional.
i do
@Jadenbetter you’re taken for granted so I don’t count you :P
awh man, but i suppose im the odd one as im arguing for skyflash on the new viggen so your statement is understandable
Again you’re kinda just ignoring the state of the game at the time. They’d have to do major changes to be accurate with the F-4F getting AIM-9L; changes that were done a fair few months later than the release. Sure, give it all aspect missiles. It’ll be fine now but was potentially a 4 free kill plane on release.
Pot, meet kettle.
I’m not. I’m trying to explain to you that the community’s rationale behind moaning about F-4Fs ordnance was basically just them looking for a reason to cry about Germany (the memory of the Leopard 2A6 was still very much alive at the time).
9F & 9J - inaccurate (couldn’t and were not be used on F-4F Late)
9L - too strong (accurate and used on the F-4F Late)
So, again, which one(s) are you going with? Balancing of the jet to make it fit the ‘meta’ i.e by giving it a middling missile (9J), making it completely useless (9F), or making it true to life and overpowered for the time (9L), but also accurate in terms of armament? Because i’d 9/10 times go with the ‘middling’ option.
It’ll be fine now but was potentially a 4 free kill plane on release.
Yes, and the German community had understood that very well back then, the talks of F-4Fs getting their 9Ls began only after the MiG-23MLD was added to the game along with AIM-7Fs and post-9L nerfs (i.e late 2022/early 2023). Sure, there were some mains who had demanded 9Ls before that, but neither we nor others were taking them seriously.
If it’s going to be added, it should be accurate. If being accurate is too strong, then the game needs to progress before it can be added.
Didn’t expect logical thinking from you. Anyways, I agree but, I am also fine with vehicles coming into the game with equipment worse than they should’ve however, that’s only if there aren’t any potential replacements that could fill the niche in the meantime and there’s a ‘gap’ that needs to be plugged.
May not be popular but they could always just add a “Late” version with either 9Ls or an upgraded version of, tho i feel without sparrows it may not fair well at high brs, and then folder it. Gives it a chance to fill a gap, add any A2G its missing if any and it solves both problems
Just like to add to this, Gaijin was going to give the 2PL DM53(or 63 i cant remember exactly) but decided against it. This was recent too.
