Hello! Does everyone think if we got a F-4E/Late Phantom II it would get
the AIM-7F (as standard), AIM-9Ls (as standard), AIM-9Ms, AIM-7M, AIM-120A?
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USAF F-4Es never really used 7M or 9Ms. Most of their service, they went with 7E-2/3 and 9J/J-1 and J-2. Got 9Ls deep into their service and its not worth to move it up in BR just because of 9L… its already too high and god knows how it can share BR with MLs. Same trash radar, not much different AG ordnance, certainly no amraams capable F-4Es exept Greek / German ones. If anything, we need earlier phantoms on normal BR, not that trash BRs F-4C/E sits at.
F-4E (1985) from Air National Guard squadrons never mounted AIM-9M Sidewinder and AIM-120A AMRAAM
Yes, AIM-9L & AIM-7F as standard Air-to-Air Missile
Personally, F-4E from USA tech tree lack AIM-9J-1
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I kind of find it amusing that people think F-4E will suddenly become a competent jet just by giving it 9Ls and 7Fs
IIRC, the radar was never upgraded, so you still have the Pulse APQ-120. TISEO might make things somewhat better but if target is low, it’s still tough luck.
Pretty sure that if given 9L and 7F, it would warrant it BR of 12.0 or even 12.3, at which point you’d constantly fly against swarms of F-15s, F-16s, Su-27s, MiG-29s etc etc
I personally think its not a good idea
add the F4B
Why not? Germany literally has a F4F with AIM-120s.
Do keep in mind that F-4F ICE has new radar system which is out of the Hornet
F-4E (even late service in USAF) never had upgraded radar
APQ-120 never had means to fire AMRAAM.
IIRC, F-4F ICE also had some sort of trapeze system to eject AMRAAMs from the fuselage
Functional TISEO gives all the look down/shoot down performance needed for this game.
TISEO is for optical target tracking
If radar isn’t pulse doppler, I fail to what difference it would make since TISEO cannot guide the missile
EDIT: Unlike F-14B which also has TISEO, F-4E doesn’t have pulse doppler
TISEO can slave the radar(and CW illuminator) to it’s target using the aspect knob.
From there it is the missile’s own low altitude performance that matters, same as any other aircraft.
Pulse Doppler or not is irrelevant to this as the radar is not keeping the track, the TISEO is.
Wouldn’t change a thing in WT. We would need J-2 for SR116 engine.
Yeah maybe but I wanna fight a MiG-29 in an F-4E with 9Ls and 7Ms specifically because its challenging
It absolutely can, what happens is that the radar’s antenna is slaved to the same pointing angle as the TIESO’s camera, and then turns on the illuminator which handles the rest, also with the F-4B / -4C’s AAA-4.
The similar story with the F-14 and it’s TCS
/ IRSTS
or the F-8 's AAS-15 (sort of) via range burst.
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Ok and now, tell me… how is that radar system going to tell 7E for what doppler frequency to look after it drops off?? Because without solid radar lock on target, it cant get speed info about target = cant give sparrow simulated doppler velocity - sparrow cant guide on target after launch.
See the below excerpts, but basically, The TISEO provides the capability to automatically augment the the Boresight guidance method(s) by providing semi-automatic training of the Antenna to the direction of selected optical contrast target. The next step depends entirely on what the RIO wants to have happen, as to best respond to the tactical situation.
The point being made is that they can then proceed with the Boresight Alternate Launch procedures
and so via the positioning of the Aspect Knob the regular Narrow Speedgate operation can occur or, set to Wide to bypass some forms of ECM (e.g. Gate capture) or otherwise look-up / Notching geometries.
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So you are using naval manual for USAF jet with system navy NEVER used…
Hopefully you know how aspect knob works and that its heavily limited by speed of target itself - sparrow cant track anything going above 600kts in BST launch which is everything at br of F-4E. Wide cant be used at low altitude at all because it commads to sweep sparrow across wide frequency of returns - will always catch ground clutter. Even side lobes.
edit: Only thing tiseo does, is pointing antenna towards target - you either have to obtain STT to feed sparrow simulated doppler or use nose aspect and pray they are going below 600kts tas if they are directly headon. And noone is going to add full range of aspect selection for only phantom in whole game. Its such niche work around, it was barely used irl, highly unreliable and barely functional.
The second excerpt is literally from a USAF F-4E manual.
The AAA-4 IRST is a similar system and was fitted to the F110A / F-4B and select early -4Cs, outside the spectrum used and video output of the TISEO the systems are functionally similar
The primary issue with low altitude performance was the radar proximity fuse not the Seeker itself, Hell they even have TTPs for the use of the AIM-7s against surface targets.
This would potentially also cover the F-110A / F-4B / F-4C Early, F-106, F-14A / F-14B / F-14D (Assorted prototypes / test variants) and some Russian interceptors that have similar EO / IR systems and capabilities.
But Function it did. Also War Thunder doesn’t model reliability, otherwise many more issues would be had.
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No, seeker is issue if it doesnt know for what to look… you literally HAVE to tell it for what to search…
On nose, it will search for targets doing 450kts ±150kts so 300-600kts speed range of target. On wide, it literally removes it and goes after strongest return, which is ground in low alt cases. With STT, it directly feeds simulated doppler of target (its speed ± 150kts) so when it launches, .6 second after dropping from plane, it searches for that preset return and tries to lock on. If it wont, it will widen the speed gate a bit after it burns out and fully arms.
Iam not aware of speed gate setting for sparrows in any other jet than Phantoms.
tbh ive been playing f4e alot recently and its a decent aircraft, but 9js are basically worthless i got MANY more gun kills than i did get Fox 2 kills, and 90% of my kills were with the aim 7e2, giving it 9ls would make it a really strong aircraft but i dont think it would make it op as the 9js are completely worthless.