we know this isnt a weight issue, since the ex can take 12 fox 3s and then 1 agm 88c on the outer pylon, and 1 88c weighs more than 2 amraams
I’ve created a report on the AMRAAM’s AoA jitter. This issue significantly negates the energy gains introduced with the F-15EX. some issue please
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/csZgRPxkjKcE
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is this only with the amraam?
This issue occurs with the AMRAAM when it exceeds Mach 4.5. It is difficult to test the same conditions on other platforms, so I have currently submitted this report as an AMRAAM-specific issue.
The same issue may also occur with the F-15IA equipped with Derby missiles, but I do not own the F-15IA.
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okay, ill test it out on other missiles in a few minutes
The IA getting 16 fox3 is almost definitely getting patched.
Apologies probably could have worded that better on my part, so again mb.
I was more implying that those two parts are what should be getting discussed specifically, rather than arguing it as a point for, or against 16 fox3’s capability, as it more is looking to understand Boeings statement of, “accommodate up to 12” on the F15EX site.
Plus personally I think gaijin agree with the 16, (but possibly aren’t doing it for balance, and like you said the IA is likely a bug.)
now regarding the second thing if it is indeed not a bug and take this with massive grain of salt as we enter speculation territory. I believe they simply don’t value MCM as a big issue so instead view 4 derby’s as some worse missiles you have to get close range for to even get a good hit, and on a f15 airframe you don’t want to get close to begin at that br. So I personally think it might be possible they view it like aim9’s as almost non-consequential to have extra derby’s similar, to extra aim9’s, regardless if their better than fox 2’s outside the 3-4km range.
The reason I think it would be fine is what I state below in the spoiler I don’t want to block the screens with walls of text again, lol.
Spoiler
However I will note the reason I’m less concerned even if it isn’t a bug and they get the extra 4 is because its maybe the first high missile count fox3 jet. that simply doesn’t benefit from MCM truly.
It’s acceleration, climb rate, speed, and with eventual EPAWWS countermeasures makes it so perfect at notching and re-engaging that it doesn’t have a reason to waste its 12 fox3’s similar to how su30sm2’s don’t need to truly as well because once in the notch they don’t need to go aggressive again to maintain lock or get R77-1’s and R27ER’s off.
So if the rare Israeli player is doing it, it simply means their likely not going to be hard to kill, and will likely be taken out first as they go mach1.8 straight into the enemy team thinking they can iron dome it.
Anyways I do say that I am for fairness among related sibling airframes, especially at when they are the same BR, however in this case the addition boosts only bad players killing other bad players slightly vs giving an extra 4 of the 2nd best overall missile in the game, for skilled players them to launch at any skill level player and it be a big threat.
okay i tested the pl12, r77-1, aam 4, and mica, only happens with the 120 as far as ik
I guess my question here is, Is it actually shaking and losing energy or is it just an issue with the new smoke trails and weather affects on the AMRAAM?
yea i totally get where youre coming from, they could view derbys as being so bad that theyre basically equivalent to ir missiles in a lot of ways, i see the argument there, but at the same time i still think theyre superior to ir missiles for most situations youll run into at top tier (ir is really only good if youre chasing someone whos multipathing, most of the time) the ia hasnt even been delivered or seen a single time yet so i dont think it should be allowed to have a single advantage over the ex right now
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im gonna try to check if its also losing speed, but all i see it doing is wiggling a bit while the other missiles arent
okay it doesnt seem to be losing speed but i could be wrong, im only using the tactical map to check. but this might just be a visual glitch on the 120s
everything was good until you suggested this, anyways it’s been forwarded for review
Either both EX/IA get 16 ARH or neither, no double standards.
@miki3084 Thanks for reporting it. It’s not just above Mach 4.5. This is my speculation:
Spoiler
I think the algorithm for how radar on aircraft guide missiles with DL after the ARH seeker loses TRK due to chaff causes the missile to violently bite onto chaff then jerk back towards lead pursuit of the target, causing the missile to “twerk” or oscillate side-to-side and continue to lose massive energy. The oscillation is parallel with the vector of the target. So, if a target is flying at an angle -90 degrees(nose-down), and dropping chaff while in the ARH’s 3-9 line, the missile will bite on chaff and jerk upwards, but since it’s being guided by the AESA still, the missile will then jerk downward into lead-pursiut, causing the oscillation and loss of energy, while still being guided by the radar, but it has lost so much speed by that first and continuous oscillation that it will never have the energy to hit.
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One no hate towards up and coming youtubers that are making content they like for people, I respect that, and hope creative people do succeed . . .
However I have to point out there is no way faster to alienate most of the player base of war thunder, and make a few think you have no clue what your saying, then by claiming the need for the 9x as an equal to the r73 when dogfighting.
The funniest thing every time, is that funnily enough it is time period accurate for jets with 9m’s to face the R73’s as they both began initial procurement and enter service at the exact same time almost 1882-1884(first r73 deliveries,) and 1882-1883(first aim9m deliveries.) what’s even funnier is these aircraft should have HMD support while the 9m’s only had radar lock slaving aircraft meaning even for the F16 it would be a bad situation to be in.
Anyways the F15EX was never, never going to be the best dogfighter or even close at 15.0. This it because it has better missiles, better speed, acceleration, and against some 15.0s fox3 count at the same BR.
This overall balance, means very reasonably that jets in dogfights don’t need to be equal, as WVR is a subset of the overall jet, and is traded off when it has other insane features compared to other jets in the same BR.
Its also why it doesn’t need it, if we make up for the maneuverability by giving it 9x’s it then needs to go up, that would then mean it would have equals who again have the worse BVR performance but also have dogfight missiles to go with their better WVR airframe i.e. MICA IR rafale, and ASRAAM/IRST EFT’s creating the same issue again.
one subset of the aircraft should not determine what it gets.
Also unrelated Maybe I’m wrong but why does he keep committing to 1 circles against what is maybe the best 1 circle fighter in game with buffed r73’s, with what is currently at best a slightly worse 2 circler f15c with aim9m’s that receive their update likely next major update. that might be part of the issue here.
Anyways hope to see the kid, keep making war thunder content and grow I wish their were a few more WVR channels/1v1ers specifically as we already have so many ARB big channels.
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and its still way to fast apparently
was reading along and just found this funny lol
first operational russian vehicle to carry the r73
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i agree, the equivalent to the r73 historically is the 9m, the modern equivalent to the 9x is the r73m/r74, the 9x and r73m should come together imo, the r73 is looking like it has near-9x level performance after the buff, but it still has the same weak flare resistance that im sure the r73m/r74 can fix
lol and the fact that none is complaining about everyone getting spike NLOS suddenly exclusivity is thrown out of the window
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The only double standard is derbies still not getting their rework
I wish it was as good as you guys make it to be then I wouldn’t mind removing them idk why everyone is scared of those derbies
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AGM-88G is “you tried” participation award for as long as small glide bombs perform as they do.
No one at all has said their good, or are scared of it addition even if a bug, the issue is instead as Jailynn ひ said quite well earlier is,
So despite most of us holding the general opinion the derby is not as strong, and is quite week when compared to every other fox3 at the 13.0+ Br’s. They are still very capable of shooting other missiles so within MCM meta.
Meaning they are essentially still 4 extra ignore playing the game properly, get out of jail free cards, which is why they are still worth complaining about slightly even if not much of a threat in close to long ranges as a direct anti-enemy weapon.
It would still be a issue if the f15EX got them, and even worse so if the EX got 4 extra 120d’s as they would work as missile counters as well, but would also provide a real threat to other players.
I don’t disagree per say, but I don’t think its a double standard.
Them along with other missiles such as aim9’s, and r27’s have been confirmed to get their own fixes within this year, and there only more patch after this one so its coming soon. if they didn’t say other missile fixes were coming I would agree.
Spoiler
however it is dumb IMO they didn’t get their fox3 buff when all the others did and I honestly don’t know the reason why. Like I guess they get the aim120 on most their jets and most players were using them over the derby’s anyways so its not really affecting Israel’s place at top tier, if the derby’s are worse for slightly longer. (I don’t agree, but this is true.)
I am going to make a conspiracy theory here based on my own personal opinion that its getting its change along side the IR missiles because of its similar design even if scaled up to the aim9’s maybe the devs were lazy and are just going to fix both with the same updated model outside of a few things. this is complete guessing though.