I’m aware, I was just trying to figure out what conditions it would require to do the steady-state AoA claimed in the document. I’ll check my F-15 manual maybe it’s in there. I’ve got a couple documents.
2 Likes
I’ve been testing the fidelity of the F-15 model in DCS and it seems too good in high alpha, but I think as a guide for the F-15 in WT, the flight model there might do the trick.
I don’t know if WT has the capabilities for a more accurate model than DCS.
You can find in the manual for the F-15 that at 1G stall the aircraft stabilizes at 45+ cocpit units , 35+ true AoA.
The true AoA is approximated for the F-15 by simply subtracting 10 from the cocpit units AoA. But beware, this is not a linear function.
I’m aware that it is overperforming in DCS. lol.
I’ll take a look later.
It never is lol, MiG-23 has the same issue… but they provided a formula.
28.3 MAC should equate to a clean F-15A weighing 31-32,000 lbs.
2 Likes
That is so unrealistic, the design limit G limit is for fatigue over the life of the airframe, the yield limit is much much higher and even then the wing’s don’t just rip off any modern fighter, they would yield, and probably require hundreds of cycles before failure. This would entail replacement of that component as the fatigue life was just lowered to an undetermined place, but the plane keeps flying.
There are tons of anecdotal reports from many deferent types of aircraft of over G’s and none of them disintegrated (high flight time airframe fatigue failures excluded)
a few I found for the f-15:
“He explained that in 33TFW in Eglin one of the new F-15C only with 150 hours was pulled with 12.6G this is what the accelerometer showed in the cabin. But the overload monitoring system at other parts of the plane registered 15G load.”
“There was another case in 1977 or 1978 when an F-15A survived 16G. The wing suffered a permanent deformation. Of course it was not visible with naked eye but it could be measured. Following the inspection the wing of the plane was replaced.”
But this can be applied to any modern aircraft, I even remember reading reports of an a6-e intruder with full bombload pulling some crazy over-G and wrinkling the upper wing skin, requiring replacement, but brought everyone home safe.
No 4th gen jet from any nation should experience structural failure from over-G, period. These aircraft were designed to do this and still come home safe.
I could see an argument for keeping structural failure as is until you unlock airframe restoration, to mimic fatigue effects irl, but once we are flying around new airframes as far as the game is concerned, this should not be a thing for any 4th gen aircraft from any nation.
1 Like
In real life no pilot rolls+pulls+rudder at supersonic
2 Likes
Source?
3 Likes
The F-15A, if the 1977 design is in the game, is built to 7.33G with a safety multiplier of 1.5. So about 13G maximum. In its day the aircraft was chronically overloaded due to high G’s and had to be repaired frequently. This was the first time pilots had a machine capable of generating very high G’s on demand. The F-15 has no G limit, the pilot has to learn to stay within the safety limit, it has it’s strengths and weaknesses. The strength is that the pilot can pull above 9G ( like when a ground collision is imminent), the weakness is that he may not survive if he gets above the safety multiple. The F-16 has a fixed limit, it’s an advantage and also a disadvantage…
The F-14 is and isn’t better at AoA, it’s not an easy thing to judge.
The F-14 has had Wing rock since about 19 real AoAs, it did have landing problems which the DFCS on the mid 90’s F-14D eliminated.
Another problem, and a very significant one, was the TF-30 engines and their chronic unreliability in high AoA mode. Taken together, then, the F-15’s features were generally more accessible than those of the F-14A and perhaps the B.
This chart is for an F-15 with the OWS system. OWS stands for Overload Warning System. It is an aural system that warns the pilot how close he is to the maximum G ( which is calculated, adjusted by configuration, weight, speed, altitude, etc). If he gets beyond that maximum, he hears the Over-G, Over-G…
F-15 without OWS is 7.33G. So the F-15A in the game is a 7.33G airframe + 1.5 safety standard, so about 13G.
But nothing realistically limits the pilot, even with the F-15A in 1976 he could damage the airframe at 13+G.
2 Likes
OWS was added sometime in the mid-1980s on new aircraft and retroactively on all older aircraft.
1 Like
Yes, flight manual is from 1986. In game it is modeled as if OWS was installed and the wing rip follows the structural limit posted above x1.5
I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing, but I don’t have an F-15 in WT and when I watch the players in RB “wiggle” the mouse I’m amazed that all those planes somehow stay together :D
1 Like
U prolly know more than me, but shouldn’t the f-15 get m 2.5 top speed? Every thing that I found shows m 2.5 but it’s 2.4 in game for some reason. Maybe those speeds were in a shallow dive.
I already explained it to you above…
1 Like
Wait so at ideal conditions on full afterburner it can hit m2.5 tho right?
At STD -10ºC yes it does 2.5
1 Like
Just because no one does it doesn’t mean it will rip right?