In addition to top speed, they can be easily defeated by all aircraft in the same BR, even 10.3 or 10.0.
In my opinion, they should be at 10.3 or 10.0, In this way, their speed will become a certain advantage and no longer useless.
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Yes because 9.0 and 9.3 sub sonics without missiles can deal with multiple jets carrying 4-8 missiles and are super sonic.
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It is clear that the 10.0 and 10.3 aircraft have deadly missiles such as Magic1, aim9J, R60m and so on, while the F4C has AIM9E and AIM7D, and the F111A even only get AIM9B, an 8.0 fighter can dodge it. If I’m flying a Q5L in 9.3, I think I can easily kill both of them.For them, dogfight are deadly, and leaving the battlefield is the only thing they can be done.
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Most of those 10.0 and 10.3 only get 2-3 missiles and most dont get CM. The Vark has no right to below 10.7 especially when its oergect for Zombers with its MAWs. And the phantom is great, play smart and stay high, you have aim 7D’s and you have a ton of versatility with your loadouts. You trade having CM for having the biggest lineup of weapons.
Your argument is based on +1.0, and +1.0 is plausible. If an 10.7 aircraft cannot defeat any aircraft of its class, even a low-class aircraft, this is clearly unreasonable. The F4C can BVR, but the F8E and Mirage3 are more deadly, While the F4C is tasty food when facing the F8E and Mirage 3E at high altitudes, the AIM7D’s performance is worrying, as his enemies generally have CM and average overload capacity. When at low altitudes, 7D is almost useless. F4c may have a fight in 10.7 but as for the F111A, he really only has top speed. When the F111A carries 8AIM9B, the M61 cannon will not be carried. Maybe 89B can kill all the AI… No one needs to use the CM to dodge a 9e or 9b Unless he is in very low speed, but who can lose speed in a dogfight with f111A and F4C? Finally, even for 9.x aircraft, a lot of 10.0 and 10.3 aircraft are now far more lethal than the F111A. 10.0 may be a bit low, but 10.3 is reasonable.
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10.3 if they lose most of their missiles and go to 10.3, people will still continue to use both vehicles as Zombers rather than fighters which as we’ve seen woth this BR patch a ton of Zombers dont compete well in their new BR’s 11.3 being the curret area most were sent to.
Agreed. The F-4C especially was the one plane that needed the decompression the most but instead it got dragged along with it.
@Pheonix_RX01
The F-4C’s missile are easily evaded with the most simple maneuvers, they aren’t that much of a threat even for 9.0s. It’s flight performance isn’t anything to write home about either but it’s serviceable, certainly doesn’t warrant a .7 BR increase though. As for speed, the F-104 is already at 9.3 with much higher practical top speed and faster acceleration. Neither the armament nor the flight model pose an insurmountable threat to any 9.0. Would it be super strong in a full downtier like it was before? Yes, that goes for pretty much every jet nowadays. Would it be completely unstoppable (like some other planes currently lower than the Phantom)? Not really.
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Realistically if you have even half a braincell the 9.3 f104 is very potent, the f4 and vark can be played in a similar style but with more missiles. Regardless im also a part of the community that thinks the f104 shouldn’t be below 9.7-10.0
Yes. The following sentence was in regards to the F-4, not the 104. My bad on the syntax there.
And yes, while it was at 10.0 the Phantom favoured a similar play style but with slightly more maneuverability. It was a great plane at that BR. However even back then it had to face things like the Mig-21BIS, AJS, Tornado, etc, with all aspect missiles that the F-4 could do nothing about and was frustrating despite the plane’s good performance at its own battle rating. Now it has to face the likes of the Mig-23ML. And regularly too. Without any countermeasures and only having dead weight missiles you might as well return to hangar and try again. Having it sit at 10.7 only promotes it being played like a Zomber even more, since it can’t do much else otherwise.
The AJS was 11.3 on release and took months for it go down to 11.0 and then 10.7 and now back to 11.3 so not really a great example when its a strike fighter that cant do its job and has to plau the role of a fighter. Besides unlike stuff that gets a better engine and such the AJS only got missiles so it fights at the same BR as the fighter counterpart. Regardless it mived back to a reasonable BR just like the Vark and the F4C besides if it really is struggling they will probably go down in BR. Or maybe they will get the same treatment as minor nation vehicles and get ignored which is the worst case scenario. Regardless. Also your examples 2 of which are not fighters get those missiles normally to compensate for the fact that they are sub par as fighters. Additionally the mig 21 bis is a pretty okay fighter at 11.3 i think the problem is that decompression really just shifted the compression around. Regardless the F4C with everything it carriers shouldn’t be 10.0 perhaps 10.3 and you’re right the F8E and U have been undertierd just like the F5E for a long time so perhaps they go to 10.3 and 10.7 or both 10.7 while the F5E goes to 11.3 and the FCU to 11.7
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Having it at 10.3 while all the undertiered troublemakers also get a bump up would be fair indeed. It would face the same planes as before without seeing any 9.0s. Hence I agree with the statement of the OP.
Av8’s and a10s should also move up imo the prem av8 should go to 10.3 with how many CM’s it has maybe the C should stay or move to 10.0
Though the F4C should have its Aim 7D replaced and guven back its AIM 7C if its going down in BR otherwise it has again the best missile loadout for its BR.
The AIM-7D arent very good and giving it the C’s will only make it worse. Also the Harrier is fine, they are 10.0 max.
AV-8C / Harrier Gr3 are a tricky call. They do have quite a dodgy FM (great acceleration but terrible energy retention) and their heat sigs are horrendous (though less badly felt considering what they encounter at that BR) which nerfs them quite badly. As for loadouts, 2x Aim-9Gs are fairly good, but the 30mm ADENs are difficult to use and you are sub-sonic (though with the decompress could just about be managable at 10.0 at a push but its lovely being able to play them and not fight F-5Cs every single match)
AV-8A with its 240 CMs almost definetly should be 10.0. I think it may really struggle at 10.3, but can always be moved up again if its still doing quite well at 10.0. (That being said, its no longer available for purchase, so will become more rare)
Harrier Gr1 probably needs to be 9.3 with the total lack of CMs at this point
If we consider the SHars which have all-aspect IR missiles and radar (and should have radar gunsight) can be found at 10.7. It would be rather hard to argue for the ground attack variant of the same aircraft to be 10.3 without those capabilies