F-104S/TAF, something needs to change

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
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The F-104S/TAF is currently at 11.3 BR. The Starfighter’s main quirk is that is has a huge engine with amazing acceleration, even at mach 1. The only thing you do as a Starfighter is go fast and go straight, which works well in lower BRs. At 11.3, you share BRs with many jets that can easily keep up with you, making your ONE advantage completely obsolete. This is especially appearent after the flightmodel update, which has made the F-104 (all versions) turn even worse than before, and bleeds a lot more speed when it turns. Here are a few comparisons:

Mig-23ML, 11.3 BR. It has better armaments with all aspect missiles (R-60M/MK) as well as a good radar paired with good radar missiles (R-23R). This wouldn’t be such a big point if the F-104S also had a good radar, as the Aim-7Es aren’t that bad for it’s BR. The problem lies with the F-104S’ atrocious radar, that can’t hold a radar lock for long enough to hit it’s target, not that you would want to bring the Aim-7E’s anyways since you have to give up your gun to equip them. Armament aside, the Mig-23 can easily outmanuever AND catch up to you, there is literally nothing an F-104S can do to win a fight against a Mig-23ML because it simply outperforms in every aspect.

Mig-21Bis also has the benefit of having much better manueverability, though it’s acceleration doesn’t quite compare against the Mig-23 nor the F-104S, it can still put up a chase. It also gets 6 all aspect missiles.

F-4E, also outmanuevers the F-104S, has high top speed but poor acceleration due to being quite heavy. Allthough lacking a radar with look-down capability, it is still a lot better than the one on the F-104. You can also load it with 4 Aim-9Js (the same as on the F-104S), and 4 Aim-7E2s which are just a bit better than the Aim-7Es, 8 missiles in total. Going forward, i won’t mention how the F-104S can’t equip it’s gun together with radar missiles.

JA37C, amazing dogfighter that gets as many missiles as the F-104S does, but gets swedish Skyflash missiles that are more resilient against chaff, paired with a better radar. It’s engine is much more powerful and i find myself getting chased down by these quite often.

Bear in mind that these comparisons are made with the stats that are available on War Thunder, and that these comparisons are made from an F-104S player’s point of view. I don’t have on-hands experience with flying any of the planes i made comparisons with.

With all of these comparisons in mind, also take into consideration that this plane mostly flies against 12.0 and 12.3 aircraft that have vastly superior performance, as these BRs have become black hole BRs from both premiums and a certain event vehicle.

What are your thoughts, should the F-104S go down in BR, or should it be buffed to be able to keep up with the other planes? Do you agree or disagree with something i’ve written, or perhaps there is something you would like to add?

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Lot of premium need BR restructuring and price slashing altogether. TAF and Draken especially need to have their price slashed down and BR lowered, they’re not what they used to be anymore.

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I know this is an older post but it’s 2025 and I’d like to note that the Mig-23 MF with MTI radar, similar speed and much better turn performance than the F-104, and just for giggles an air-to-air cannon ballistics computer is now 11.0 while the starfighter struggles at 11.3! Also, the Mirage F1C is at the same BR as the F-104S ASA while being slightly slower but once again with better turn performance and more importantly, with 3 solid radar missiles and Magic 2s, probably the best IR missile in that BR range. Also an MTI radar. Mirage 2000 at 12.3 has Pulse Doppler tracking AND search, is pretty much as fast and has better energy retention than the F-104, and insanely better turning obviously, PLUS unlockable Magic 2s and those same solid SARH missiles as the F1C. Yet it’s 0.3 higher than the F-104S ASA which is the exact same flight performance as the S but with an MTI (not even PD) radar and very average Aim-9Ls, alongside mediocre Aspides that the J-8B has down at 11.3 but now at 12.0, and in the starfighter as per usual if you want the very mediocre SARH missiles you have to lose your Vulcan. Yet I bet you updates will come and go this year, and the same damn posts will be going up in 2026 because the starfighters don’t make gaijin money so they just let them suffer. All versions of the Tornado IDS are in a similar spot, but at least the 9Ls and okay turn performance at 11.3 mean your odds are a little better, but of course if you want to take any ordinance as an ATTACKER cause yk that’s your job, you are pretty slow so… two jets that desperately need some help.

EDIT: I had wrong BRs listed, I fixed than and believe my point still stands pretty clearly lol. ASA should be 11.7, S and S TAF should be 11.0 alongside the Mig-23MF, and the Tornado IDS all versions should be 11.0 because a guided bomb isn’t really gonna make a difference in an air battle anyways and their A2A capability doesn’t change at all from 11.3-11.7 even A-10s have better A2A capability.

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All of your BRs are very wrong

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MiG -23M/MF? None of the 23Ml/MLA/MLD is 11.3 .

Mirage F.1 is same BR with the ASA in RB …and while yes the MF.1 is better , it’s not because of this :

but only because

and flight characteristics in general.

But we are comparing a 12.0 with a 11,3 in the case of TAF 104.

My opinion is that the TAF 104 can be below 11.0 , since we have 21MF/SMT /J35XS at 10.3 . Don’t tell me AIM-7Es because it doesn’t make it better than them. And i can’t think of any 11.0 being worse than it.

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this is just compression, we should be advocating for uptiers not downtiers

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I know, i told it in the new BR tuning topic , as others have done as well.
They (GJ) possibly don’t really care (?) or want to do it at least now.
So , specifically for this plane (which i don’t even have , so no personal reason/gain to support it) …i wouldn’t mind seeing it lower. It’s not that it has something special going on and it is worse than a MiG 23M/MF or a F-4EJ(not the Kai) .
I think it is more in the MiG 21MF/SMT/J35XS league , but them need to go up as well. So by the current standards i can’t see it over 10.7.
Decompression is needed though.

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guy is playing in 2023

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ok but you’d have to downtier every single f104 in game besides a/c to do so, because the f104s is a direct upgrade to existing 104s at 10.7-11.0

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I wouldn’t really mind.
I mean if you look at them all, it’s not that they have a weapon or a feature that the other planes don’t have.
In general we need decompression, but even if they go down it’s not that they will make the situation worse than it already is.

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You should, that’s called BR compression.

By the very definition of BR compression, yes, it will.

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Yes ok i agree. I’ve already done a poll about decompression in February. 28 people cared to vote!
Others voted no because i said it should go max BR 15.0 , they said 14,3 will be fine…or leave it as is.

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Which planes like the Italian G model with TWO IR missiles desperately needs a 0.3 decrease anyways

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I agree that the S model (not ASA) should go below 11.0, that’s just moving compression because it would be OP in a down tier.

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Yeah sorry I meant Mig-23MF not ML and I accidentally had the French GRB BRs, everything else should be correct

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Let’s just get rid of the F-104s, who actually enjoys the needle d***s?

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Bail out of 11.7 if you are in a terrible aircraft for the meta! The MIG23ML/MLA/MLD is extremely strong at 11.7. It can out run, out climb, out dive and out accel every single thing it faces except for basically full uptiers (12.7) and than its on PAR with its 1470+kph straight speed without even having to dive. It can also out turn most things both at high AOA and 2+ circle. The next thing that is as fast is a Mirage2k that doesn’t even come with a gun at 12.3 and no SARH.

There is a reason every single bot account is using the ML to farm for selling. It can base bomb better than any other jet in the game and still have 2 auto kills with r24r.

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Meanwhile the F4S having access to 6 AIM 7Fs, while maintaining up to three napalms, and multiple thousand pounders, while also being faster than most people at its BR.

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Ok. You are 12.0 and are opened up to the 13.0 blackhole + Fox3. Run like 1290kph vs 1470kph and have to decide gun or not (marginal top speed increase). Turn worse. Accel worse. Climb worse. Less CMS. Worse CM.

It’s all coming together now

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Eh, American mains deserve to suffer. That’s what happens when you spent years dominating with the F4S.

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