“well done, now reward yourself with a good strong cup of tea and a biscuit ol’ chap”
4 Likes
F16 doesn’t have airbrake warning iirc either
Ah yes, the infamous Nagging Nora…
2 Likes
@Patriotic_panda @Morvran this arguement is just embarrassing. Your both using half-truths, poor arguments, and generally doing exactly what you’re accusing the other person of doing. Neither of you come out of this looking good.
Yes, it has actually been acknowledged, discussed to death; and the proposal pretty much everyone who wants MMW Brimstone added agrees on is to just make them susceptible to smoke, and not add the autonomous attack mode.
At that point they are essentially just IIR missiles in all but name, and we already have helicopters that carry 16 IIR missiles, with range equal to or greater than Brimstone 1. So please enlighten me as to what is so insane about it. But if 18 missiles instead of 16 is that big of a problem Gaijin can just limit the number that can be carried, as they have done countless times before.
It may or may not be entirely realistic, but Gaijin has a long history of bending reality / limiting capabilities to make weapons work in game (multipath, PARS 3, Martel, Sturmtiger, IIR AASM even).
And so what if someone does? People have tried to report gameplay decisions before (e.g. Martel guidance, multipath, MMW seeker for Brimstone) and the report either gets explicitly thrown out or just ignored forever. This is a complete non-issue and you know it.
Yes @Morvran 's report was indeed indefensible and rightly got shot down. But let’s not start that battle there I’ve been plenty of iffy bug reports from both sides.
Yes, the weapon isn’t in service yet so there are only renders of the planned load out, just like there are only renders of the planned SPEAR loadout on the Eurofighter. I doubt you would be impressed at someone arguing the Eurofighter could only carry one spear because that is all it has been photographed with.
Not sure what you’re getting at there.
The image he posted is an official Eurofighter creation that they’ve used in marketing a couple of times. But yes the 18 smart glider loadout has a much larger chance of seeing reality.
SPEAR Glide is a little iffy in my view. As far as I can tell it is a private venture by MBDA, with no evidence that anyone has shown an interest in buying it or paying to have it fully integrated yet.
Rafale doesn’t need it, they have their own equivalent (smart glider).
That is flat out indefensibly false. Better Lock range would make them nicer to use.
Once more, why on earth does it matter if someone reports it? If Gaijin have decided to make smoke blocking mmw a gameplay decision the report will be ignored.
- Other than size all flares are equal in game, so that’s not relevant.
- The issue was found and fixed a decade before Eurofighter entered service, so even if they were in the game, it still wouldn’t be relevant to this discussion.
That’s just being obtuse and you know it.
Having a higher base lock range would make the seeker perform better at lower ranges too (game calculations are based on the ratio of base lock range compared to various other factors). And it would avoid problems where you get a lock and then the target aspect angle changes a bit and you suddenly lose the lock just before you want to fire, as happens fairly regularly.
Gaijin have already said everyone will get 5th gen iir missiles at the same time and the game isn’t ready for them yet. Not really any point in bringing this up.
Not that simple depending on how you define kinematically better. MICA IR may well have a higher maximum range than ASRAAM. I guess we will see when they are added.
And this whole arguement you have been wilfully ignoring the counterplay suggestions that were presented to you. The only time you even acknowledge them was to suggest completely removing Brimstone. Kind of ironic for you to throw around accusations of bad faith arguments and then behave like that.
15 Likes
Didn’t think I’d see a day where I 100% agree with @Flame2512 but here we are.
I might win the lottery now
It’s also possible that most if not all top tiers smoke grenades could be reported to block all MMW. Strv and Leclerc (and others) using galix would be safe for example
I do agree with that point. Now that some helis with DIRCCM (basically immune to everything when stationary appart from guns) can carry 16 FnF missiles, I would not mind 18 IR equivalent brimstones.
I think it would be better if that one spear was on the multi-rack. I’ve seen rafale doing this with the AASM for example. This would help for a report for the multirack with spear on EFT
Smart glider seems to be in a similar situation as the spear as of now. It wasn’t confirmed to be tested/integrated on any planes as of now. It’s a similar MBDA venture as the spear glider. It’s also very recent (presented earlier this year), so things might change.
In all fairness this also applies to every other top tier missiles. Magic 2 and R73 for example both have reports for their seeker range to more than 10km front aspect. But as you said it would help all missiles with iffy situation when planes are changing aspect. Wouldn’t really matter much for the magic 2 as its range is relatively low (unless you are diving on someone). This would also app’y for MANPADS, which would be much more useful tho especially against helis.
This would also help negate the IRCCM on the su39 and other helis (that are not DIRCCM)
This was already discussed, but MICA lofts, ASRAAM doesn’t. ASRAAM would definitely have a time to target advantage, but max range would need to be tested in game with this taken into account.
Im of the opinion we’ll see hard lock range limits and probably no LOAL for IIR missiles as a deliberate balancing measure for the gen 5 IRs (except maybe some wierd work around for HOBS). If nothing else, the game seems to strugge to render things past about 25-30km and whilst radar missiles work, I wouldnt be surprised if IR missiles didnt
Given the state of Aim-9M lock ranges, I dont think this is an unreasonable assumption. (I think the report has been deliberately ignored to mitigate the reduced smoke motor and why reports for ARH have also not been implemented)
So with max range taken out of the equation, and say, all Gen 5s capped to 25km? the better time to target would probably work in our favour.
If nothing else though, giving everyone HOBS would finally eliminate the major advnatage the Rafale has which is having HOBS where nearly no other nation has the same. The Rafale could no longer streamroll the WVR theatre.
It depends on the way LOAL would be implemented tho. Only MICA IR has confirmed datalink (in the medium-long range missiles category). Others would have to rely on IOG which is far from perfect.
ASRAAM would need those increased seeker ranges to actually be competitive at longer ranges.
On that note, IRIS-T and MICA IR lock ranges are known AFAIK, and ASRAAM would fit around their values, but I don’t have infos on them personally, might be worth to prepare a report on the future
That is largely my point. Between potential rendering issues or game limitations, I can just see a hard LOBL requirement beyond HOBS or set max ranges.
Just look at AGMs / Tpods being capped to 30km
What’s even the range of the IRIS-T SLS as of now ?
I believe it can lock front aspect at around 10km ?
MICA and ASRAAM both feature better seekers than it so they should have better lock.
Plus considering the fact that it’s underperforming as of now
i don’t know about R-73,… but i know about Magic-2, as i tried to bug-report it some day.
Magic-2 is reportedly able to do the following range:
All-Aspect : 4.5-5km (no exact range, because sources are giving either 4.5km or 5km)
Rear-Aspect : 10km (from which it is known to be a “Poor man IRST”)
Which is far from the 10km All-Aspect, but also fairly better than what it can do in game today.
Yeah, that sounds about right I think. Though I can still see like a 25km max lock range as a balancing measure
Did you use the chart of the missile locking a dry thrust Mirage III ? Because I believe this one shows ranges of around 10km. Need to look at them again tho
nope, i did used other sources both secondaries (or not source at all if i consider what Tech mod said)
Idk MICA, but IRIS-T and ASRAAM were both said to be 25km iirc.
i mean what do you define as “medium range”?
If its 50 km, then you would have to add r-74m2 there as well, with loal+datalink
IDK if any other modern ir missiles have that ability with a confirmed max range/launch range.
I have to say I don’t know that much about Russian and Chinese équipement. I was mostly referring to the Western IIR missiles
It doesn’t? All footage I see of long range ASRAAM launches consist of it immediately pulling into a climb.
from all i’ve seen:
most footage comes from a test fire upon a drone that sits at higher altitude than the Firing aircraft.
which explains the pull.
but i’ve seen one footage, with opposite configuration (drone at lower altitude) giving a different result of behavior, in the form of a direct dive from ASRAAM to the target.
so there is actually no proof in videos that ASRAAM actually Loft.
and we should also consider that ASRAAM Body have actually no lift surfaces