Eurofighter Typhoon - Germany's Best Fighter Jet

[Jεcka]

@Panther2995

EFT has significantly higher chances to survive against enemy jets unlike Su-34, we both know that.

Ranges in GRB are mere 20km’s or so, if they’ve ARHs then no, you’re dead - bonus point if it’s a MICA-EM because then you’re extra dead due to their close-range KP being higher than of both the AMRAAM and R-77.

EFT can basically do anything unlike some other jets.

These “some other jets” are either Su-34 or sub-sonic buses. F-16s, the Rafale and Gripens all can do the same things the EFT can and ‘survive’, this doesn’t make the EFT special in any way, but sure, lets keep the straws coming.

Bah, on top of that, I’ve only been in these situations exactly because of EFTs A2G limitations. If a jet with F&F finds himself in the situations I have, then they’ve ducked it up themselves, not because of the way it has to play.

Still, this talk is pointless, GRB is too fluid to claim something will happen for sure, the only objective truth here is how the EFT has to put itself in more danger and how its kill potential is still realistically worse than of a Su-34 or Rafale or an F-16C against ground targets.

It will not be reduced to 6 and it will not receive ahistorical mode, you need to accept this fact.

Sure, then make it mMW and reduce the amount to 6.

[quartas121]

with GBU-53 id guess, on a post EPAWSS strike eagle

can carry 28 GBU-53, F-15EX can carry 36

[Jεcka]

@Jεcka

Sure, then make it mMW and reduce the amount to 6.

This btw is very ironic because PARS 3LR used to be SAL (an operating mode it has never had) before it was given its F&F capabilites, so Gaijin for sure can make Brimstone IR F&F as there’s a precedent for making a weapon ahistorical, they just don’t wanna.

edit: brb, tea.

[Panther2995]

@Jεcka

Ranges in GRB are mere 20km’s or so, if they’ve ARHs then no, you’re dead

You’re not, if you know how to effectively notch and dodge ARH missiles most of the time you will be fine.

@Jεcka

bonus point if it’s a MICA-EM because then you’re extra dead due to their close-range KP being higher than of both the AMRAAM and R-77.

MICA trades ranges with flight performance, if you think its bad wait for until it recieve its true performance.

@Jεcka

F-16s, the Rafale and Gripens all can do the same things the EFT can and ‘survive’, this doesn’t make the EFT special in any way, but sure, lets keep the straws coming.

EFT has better situational awareness due to having better RWR and MAW system and compare to those jets it carries more countermeasures which effectively increases its survivability, you dont know what you’re talking about.

@Jεcka

Bah, on top of that, I’ve only been in these situations exactly because of EFTs A2G limitations. If a jet with F&F finds himself in the situations I have, then they’ve ducked it up themselves, not because of the way it has to play.

And how long do you think you can run away from other jet? you might be able to dump your ordinance but in the end you will get caught, i caught countless jets that has f&f munitions and easily killed them.

@Jεcka

Still, this talk is pointless, GRB is too fluid to claim something will happen for sure, the only objective truth here is how the EFT has to put itself in more danger and how its kill potential is still realistically worse than of a Su-34 or Rafale or an F-16C against ground targets.

That doesnt change the fact that EFT can make more impact on ideal conditions, and lets not forget it requires significantly less SP to spawn compare to those jets.

@Jεcka

Sure, then make it mMW and reduce the amount to 6.

It will not recieve mMW and will not be reduced to 6 anytime soon, these are not my words they are just coming straight from developers and we both know how broken Brimstones will be with mMW feature, even if its reduced to 6.

[MiG_23M]

@Morvran

Did you just use the argument that the Typhoon cant do something because the Mig-29 Cant do it?

The Eurofighter DA2 was tested only up to a maximum of around 26 degrees and theorized a maximum of 30, 35 would enter the realm of total flow separation. The vortex generator and canard do not assist the outer portion of the wing - the wing tips stall completely in such conditions.

Flow separation begins to occur (but isn’t a problem) at just 6 degrees.

To overcome the instabilities at such angles of attack and to complete a Cobra, the rapid pitch-up is done to overcome these instabilities and prevent yaw departures or rolling moments in the maneuver. It is referred to as “Rapid attainment”. The Eurofighter likewise could potentially “Cobra” but the sustained hovering at 50+ degrees AoA is totally absurd and defies the laws of physics. There should be no roll control from the wings at this AoA, the pitch-up moment created by the canards and trailing edge flaps shouldn’t be functional in the way it is at that angle of attack.

[MiG_23M]

As you can see here;
The Eurofighter’s wing breaks down the vortices at around ~25 degrees. This is when flow separation becomes critical and loss of control can happen if such angles of attack are sustained.

However, the AMK kit specifically helps to prevent vortex breakdown and allows AoA beyond ~25-26 degrees up to maybe 30 sustained.

[ARK_BOI]

I don’t need it to be mmw like irl and i know Brimstone don’t have ir irl but it stop gaijin from doing so?
Russians enjoy bombing people in grb outrage every SPAA in the game effortlessly get multi kill? While other can’t get better stuff than them otherwise it unbalance?
Like i said I don’t care excuse that SU-34 has KH-38 because how weak bla bla bla when that damn KH-38 was the sole reason force me to spawn jet fast as possible in grb every match for long and let me tell you playing GRB like that are not fun

Well yeah i guess Russian handheld continue because noone allow to make their life harder

[Jεcka]

@Panther2995

MICA trades ranges with flight performance, if you think its bad wait for until it recieve its true performance.

What?

I literally said that it’s better at the range we fight in GRB.

EFT has better situational awareness due to having better RWR and MAW system and compare to those jets it carries more countermeasures which effectively increases its survivability, you dont know what you’re talking about.

F-16C and Rafale have the exact same RWR stat wise, Su-34s can detect the most bands and thus has the best situational awareness out of all the jets mentioned:

EFT has “threat types” which admittadely I dunno what that does.

Range of each is irrelevant in GRB as the maps are too small for the difference between 70 and 100km to matter.

Rafale has MAW, and IR MAW sucks, yes, I’d like my MAW to start wasting my flares and chaff whenever it detects an IR signature! If I dunno what I am talking about, what does that make you?

The only threat that F-16s and Rafale’s RWR cannot pick up on in Pantsir’s tracking radar as its covered by the K-band.

And how long do you think you can run away from other jet? you might be able to dump your ordinance but in the end you will get caught, i caught countless jets that has f&f munitions and easily killed them.

Why would you need to run away from another jet if you’ve already used up all of your F&F ordnance and returned to the AF to re-arm? At that point its all about situational awareness. See, you tell me I have no idea what I am talking about, and then you start grasping at every single straw to argue that somehow an F&F jet needs to put itself at as much risk as an EFT has in order to optimally fulfill its duty of locking 6 different targets, firing off its F&F IR missiles, and dipping after making 6 people alt f4 roughly 30 seconds after it spawned.

At this point I am convinced you’re here just to argue that EFT is a plane governed by magic, where somehow the downsides of its A2G weapon systems don’t matter and I no longer see a point in continuing this discussion any further because no matter what I say, you will come up with a deflection or a straw that you can pull on rather than actually admitting that EFT is straight up worse in A2G regardless of how much ordnance and parasitic drag it puts on itself. I suggested hypothetical middle grounds in order to satisfy both sides, and how there is a precedent for making weapons ahistorical in order to make them perform at the same level as others (PARS 3LR being a prime example), whether you like what I suggest or not is up to you.

I’m out. Bye.

[Fireball_2020]

25 degrees is not the upper FCS limit tho. we know that for sure, i agree to an extent it’s probably not much higher, but it is for sure >25

[MiG_23M]

The FCS is designed for carefree handling, it should not allow you to enter regions of flight where departure can occur. The F-16 has the same issue and thus the limit without AMK is going to be around 25-26 degrees. Vortex breakdowns cause bi-lateral disturbances that leave the aircraft with asymmetrical yawing moments it cannot counter.

[Thodin]

@Jεcka

When’s the last time you’ve seen a Eurofighter do this?

The EF flight performance does not define its efficiency in GRB. Thats what Panther doesn’t understand. Its just the kind of ordnance. As long a the FM is semi-decent, its already sufficient in GRB, as long as you have something like the Kh-38. All you need is a good target pod and good F&F ordnance. You spawn, you shoot, you wait for the kill feed flytext to pop up. While waiting for the result you’re already on your way to land and to rearm. You have zero exposure to any air threat.

Its just not fair. Also Rafale, its plain op compared with EF and its forced target lasing. You probably need longer than most games last to achieve the same ground kills as Suchois or Rafales score just after spawning in. While under permanent threat of SAMs and spawning in enemy jets.

[MiG_23M]

@Thodin

The EF flight performance does not define its efficiency in GRB. Thats what Panther doesn’t understand. Its just the kind of ordnance. As long a the FM is semi-decent, its already sufficient in GRB

Like having a requirement that the race car can go 10s in the quarter mile, but in this case the Eurofighter is faster than that minimum requirement and it has more room in the back for groceries as well. Hope that analogy catches on for any car folk. Maybe it won’t because that’s an American thing.

[Thodin]

@MiG_23M

Like having a requirement that the race car can go 10s in the quarter mile, but in this case the Eurofighter is faster than that minimum requirement and it has more room in the back for groceries as well. Hope that analogy catches on for any car folk. Maybe it won’t because that’s an American thing.

You can also do a mind experiment. If you bolt target pods and KH’s on WW2 Pe-8’s it would still be op. Cause all you do is to spawn in, you’re in range anyways, lock, shot. It even could be done when this equipment would be theoretically bolted onto a WW1 biplane. Cause you simply don’t need any flight performance to pull off the typical Suchoi spawn-in GRB massacre.

While vice versa even a hyper-modern gen5 strike fighter would be bad in GRB, if you just grant it laser guided ammunitions. Alone the huge time malus to lock, to shot, waiiiiiiiit until you’re able to lock and shot at another target … it doesn’t fit to such a super fast paced gamemode like GRB. The typical short match duration requires quickly to deploy weapon systems.

Also mind the Rafale. Its as powerful as the EF. Why does it gets that ground ordnance and EF doesn’t? Not really logical.

[MiG_23M]

@Thodin

Cause you simply don’t need any flight performance to pull off the typical Suchoi spawn-in GRB massacre.

The KH series are never in enough numbers to stop a single Pantsir or Tor from just shooting down the incoming ordnance. The fire and forget only lets the launch aircraft escape if the aircraft is fast enough to get out of range. There are scenarios where it can launch from beyond the reach of the SAM’s if the airframe performance is high enough… and for the generation 4+ airframes that is no problem.

[Fireball_2020]

This study must be outdated or inaccurate then, because what I stated is a known fact.

[Morvran]

Given the fact that Su-34 almost never faces Pantsir. this is kinda irrelevant. Given the main SPAAs it does face all the time like ADATS have a max effective range barely 8km. KH-38 is more than enough to deal with it, even with the worlds worst pilot.

Tor just takes 1-2 KH-38s to kill as well, which is more than enough for the Su-34s 6.

The greatest problem is that the only nation with effective SPAA is the soviets and the nation with the best AGMs by a significant margin is the soviets.

[MiG_23M]

Sounds like you’re not going to be sharing any proof then

[Thorluis299272]

Why not remove ir and tv guidance from kh38m on ground battles? It would allow them to still exist, but only as a one off weapon.

[ARK_BOI]

@Jεcka

At this point I am convinced you’re here just to argue that EFT is a plane governed by magic, where somehow the downsides of its A2G

It was the reason like this why people don’t like Soviet main
RU able to get broken a*s stuff for whatever reason and it always fine
Other want the same stuff? It instantly gonna break balance according from god know who?
I really wonder since Russia become standard for the game balance?

[Panther2995]

@Jεcka

What?

I literally said that it’s better at the range we fight in GRB

MICA’s are better in 0-10km distances and usual GRB engagements are still in 10-15km which makes Amraam’s effectively more useful.

@Jεcka

EFT has “threat types” which admittadely I dunno what that does.

Range of each is irrelevant in GRB as the maps are too small for the difference between 70 and 100km to matter.

Rafale has MAW, and IR MAW sucks, yes, I’d like my MAW to start wasting my flares and chaff whenever it detects an IR signature! If I dunno what I am talking about, what does that make you?

The only threat that F-16s and Rafale’s RWR cannot pick up on in Pantsir’s tracking radar as its covered by the K-band.

You keep forgetting that EFT carries more countermeasures then both F16 and Rafale while having better flight performance, which increases your survivability a lot.

@Jεcka

At this point I am convinced you’re here just to argue that EFT is a plane governed by magic, where somehow the downsides of its A2G weapon systems don’t matter and I no longer see a point in continuing this discussion any further because no matter what I say, you will come up with a deflection or a straw that you can pull on rather than actually admitting that EFT is straight up worse in A2G regardless

Seems like you misunderstood completely, Gaijin can give F&F weapons to EFT and it will be fine in my book considering im using my German EFT with my Leopard line-up.

Difference is that i accept that EFT does everything better than other planes except having F&F munitions and in my book it doesnt need it, if it recieves however it will be welcome addition.