Isnt it called the M1IP and not the IPM1?
IRL yes, in game it’s IPM1
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Of course, just making a remark about how many shells (even in downtiers) can deal with CR2’s UFP as a way to say it’s pretty situational and relies on coin flips.
Yeah I understand that.
Just tried to explain how armor might be a thing a player would consider when it doesn’t hamper his mobility as much and when that armor actually works against most rounds at it’s tier.
Even for the best of players.
Challenger 2E actually gets decent mobility, so it’s pretty different from other “siblings” though.
They definitely don’t belong in the same bucket as the best 12.7s, but I’d love them to go to 13.0 first.
CR2 at 11.7 is pretty stacked against 10.7s, losing only in mobility and gun handling (to some).
I worded that one poorly.
Uparmored Leopards can eat an average round with their UFP, while Challengers can only do that with their cheeks.
I meant the system of how they’re determined by using averages and not stats from best 0.01%.
Yeah, just don’t overdo it. Use it appropriately.
I mean, you’re effectively describing the TTD. Its armour is effectively useless at / above its BR, but it can work very well against mobile 9.3s and most of 9.0s.
TTD is much less mobile than the Leo 2K, but I believe they should both be 10.3.
Well, it’s still below the average of 12.7:
T-90M is abysmal and should really be 12.3.
VT4/A1 are also abysmal, and should probably be 11.7 and 12.0 respectively.
It’s possibly the second slowest (Western) MBT at top tier, next to the Merkava Mk.4B and SEP V1 / V2 (with add-on package)
I think that would be reasonable. Then the 12.0 M1A2s can go to 12.7 without them being considered ‘top tier’, and the Leclerc and the other unimpressive 12.3s / 12.7s can stay at their own BR.
Yup. Should it go to 12.0 or is the bad mobility (though good reverse speed) and relatively bad gun handling (for a NATO MBT) really enough to keep it at 11.7?
Oh, for sure.
Though the benefit of the 11.7 Chally 2 is that it gets to face 10.7s and rarely ever any 12.7s.
I think you’d want to look at both. Otherwise you end up with the Clickbait at 12.0 and the T-72AV (TURMST) at 10.3.
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Definitely, TTD gets some useful armor while not losing that much mobility, especially in downtiers.
Yeah, I was comparing 2E with other Challengers which are just abysmal.
Agreed.
I think it’s better suited for 11.7 than 12.0, but that’s just my opinion on it.
Yeah, it definitely gets some easy matchups when going against 10.7s.
What do you mean ?
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Well, currently the Clickbait (and all the 12.0 Abrams) are undertiered probably because of the fact that majority of Clickbait players are pretty inexperienced and the Clickbait isn’t really forgiving due to the fact that it doesn’t have the best all-round armour, unlike Eastern MBTs, and they don’t have an autoloader that can load just as well irrespective of crew levels, qualification, and number.
The TURMST, on the other hand, is arguably overtiered at 10.3… having T-72A levels of UFP protection (though K-1 can help a bit), which is much worse than the T-72B’s / T-72B (1989)'s UFP… for the access of Gen 2 thermals. I don’t think that’s a reasonable side-grade, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the average stats on the TURMST is better than the Clickbait’s.
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It’s not. I have it and it does perfectly fine. The round alone should qualify it for 10.3, as no 9.0s need to see 3BM42. It’s armor isn’t amazing but it’s still at least as good as the Abrams, and can tank shots surprisingly well. It’s got decent mobility and a great gun+fcs.
The click bait is also decent (going off the TT variant, at least). I want it to stay 12.0 though because I’m mean and unfair and I want it to be easy to play.
Ah, but the Sabra’s 6s reload M322 (which can pen up to 588mm) is okay?
What about the M60 AMBT’s 6.7s reload KE-W (which can pen up to 581mm)?
Turret cheeks are much better, but the turret armour overall isn’t great since the breech and commander / gunner optics can be easily penetrated.
The hull armour of the Abrams has an autoricochet UFP for pretty much any range, and the LFP is roughly ~390mm - ~420mm thick, which is much better than the TURMST’s UFP of ~370mm and abysmal ~200mm LFP… not to mention the driver’s port that can’t really be easily hidden.
The only caveat to the Abrams’ armour is the fact that the turret ring is quite large and only ~68mm thick, though the main benefit of the Abrams is the reload speed, gun handling, and mobility… all of which the TURMST lacks.
Its acceleration isn’t anything special to be honest.
The top speed is only 60km/h and the reverse speed is aweful.
I’d say it’s even worse than the Sabra’s in most cases since at least the Sabra can reverse out of some situations.
The only redeeming quality of it compared to the other 10.3 Russian MBTs.
I don’t think we can argue against it going up just because you want it to stay there 😅
I know I’d love to have the TURMS III stay at 8.3 but that wouldn’t sit right with me.
Hence the “mean and unfair” portion lol
(I’ll respond to your other points in a minute I’m just currently cooking breakfast lmao)
Yeah I understood that 😂
Both of which have worse armor and a drastically larger outlines. For the M60 AMBT, someone can take it out with a 57mm APHE frontally. Also, both lack an autoloader- so if they get down to 2 crew, that reload is now, what, 12 seconds minimum? Also the AMBT is rare enough that it is not a great argument. Both are also drastically less mobile then the T-72AV. The T72AV is 125% more mobile than the Sabra.
The Turret is drastically better. Even the breech isn’t that bad right now because for some reason Trunnions are modelled so that Volumetric struggles with them.
The UFP of the Abrams is such a drastically small area that even the auto-ricocheted doesn’t really matter- especially compared to the LFP of the Abrams which is, put kindly, huge. Plus the turret ring, the combo is really imo equivalent to the Abrams, or if it is worth a BR decrease certainly no more of a decrease then .3.
Its acceleration is decent. Never said it was special but it gets the job done decently well and moves you when it matters.
Reload, pen and gun handling of the sabra >>>> mobility and armor of the TURMS.
The TURMS armor gets mostly canceled out at 10.3-10.7 since it’s weak thus you are stuck with a tank with better (but still mediocre) mobility and worse in the other aspects.