Do we need more than just TNT equivalent?

  • Yes
  • No, it’s fine as it is
  • Either way is fine with me
0 voters

In WT all explosives use TNT equivalent but that’s a poor metric on it’s own.

In general you can devide the power of the explosives into two categories:

Brisance and Blast performance.

To put it simply: Brisance determines the destrutive strenght of the shockwave, while blast the effect of the pressure built-up.

If you want to cut down a tree with explosives, the higher the brisance the larger of piece you’ll blow out of the tree or the less explosive you need for the same effect.

Blast is the pressure generated by the explosive or incendiary material. It’s less destructive to highly resistant material but has more range and destroys things with a built up of pressure.

It becomes more effectiev when the blast is contained, like underwater or when exploding inside a structure, e.g. a building or an airframe.

High-Brisance:

  • More armor penetration (destructive force)
  • More fragments, carrying more energy from bombs and explosive shells

High-Blast:

  • More and greater area of pressure (overpressure)
  • Greater damage against air frames or targets in water

Here’s an example with Amatol. Amatol was created to by mixing TNT with ammonium nitrate, to an explosive that was cheaper to produce than TNT alone without losing too much efficeny.

While the brisance of Amatol decreased, the blast performance increased, due to greater amounts of gases released from the reaction.

Spoiler

An HE shell filled with Amatol would have less armor penetration and would produce less fragments or fragments carrying less velocity, compared to TNT.
At the same time the blast effect would increase, increasing overpressure ability and damage to airframes.

As result:

German 150mm I.Gr. 38 (Mineshell)

The shell would lose armor penetration (-6-26% of TNT equivalent) due to the reduced brisance of Amatol but the overpressure ability of open top vehicles would greatly increase (+20-30% of TNT equivalent).

The shells purpose was that of demoltion of infantry fortification and defenses, thus the shell is designed as a Mineshell with thin walls and high capacity, to have a high blast effect (resulting in very large craters)
Very similiar to the intended purpose of the KV-2 with it’s 152mm howitzer.

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This sounds intriguing. Are brisance and blast values able to be found for each explosive type in the game? I’d hate for this to be something that Gaijin needs to make up/ guess for the majority of rounds.

TNT-e is all that’s necessary.
Wasting CPU cycles on something more complicated that will provide the same result changes nothing.

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It won’t change the computation performance.
All it does is seperate the penetration performance from the blast performance and in theory would also allow for more accurate fragmentation performance.

A 20mm Hispano SAPI filled with flash powder shouldn’t explode like it’s filled with TNT or PETN.
Flash powder has low brisance but pretty good blast behaviour making it effective in dealing structural damage to planes, without causing much fragmentation.

I think there’s a lot of information out there on the performance of various explosives.
That snipped with the Amatol is from a book about military explosives.

Explosives in game already have a brisance value. Strength equivalent is what is used for TNT equivalent.

image

I am unsure what difference it makes.

Fascinating.

So maybe it’s already modeled like that? That strenght influences pressure while brisance is related to armor penetration 🤔

Penetration from explosives is determined solely by TNT equivalent.

At least that’s as far as I can tell.

Then what does brisance do? 🤔

My best guess is quite literally “maybe something”.

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Interesting:

"s_r_379": {
  "strengthEquivalent": 0.002,
  "brisanceEquivalent": 0.002

I was wondering if there was a difference but they are both set to 0.002.

Not sure if that has any effect though. Depite having no explosive power the 20mm SAPI deals reasonable damage to components.
Might be related to realShatter. Maybe the explosive power has little effect anymore on the behaviour of shells.

Also funny how German H5 and H10 (RDX) have 1.7 strenght while RDX on its own only has 1.6 😂

I just checked the github datamine from the first commit (when it was made) 4 years ago, and even then explosives had brisance equivalent values. Real shatter did not exist at this time.

So in other words, real shatter seems unrelated to this.

No, I was talking about how the explosive power doesn’t seem to have any effect on the shells performance. Or simply not enough to make a difference.

I could be wrong though. SAPI deals very little structural damage it seems, but both HEI and SAPI can knock out an engine with fragments.

Spoiler




Good to know.

Actually I’m wrong.

SAPI fragments deal very little damage. So the engine was knocked out from a direct hit, before the round exploded:

Spoiler


But from the looks of it, SAPI doesn’t use realShatter.