They make them feel the same and ironically the norm usually is, the vehicles from the country of its origin are usually the worst variants. F-16 on release, Sweden’s Gripen almost had no HMS (We have to research 2 top tier vehicles to get Fox 3s, every other Gripen operator will just get the missile), Belgium’s F-16A is 12.0, same as the USA’s and others, but with 6 9Ms. I guess for the F-18 I’ll grind the UK (Canada/Australia), Sweden (Finland/Denmark?) or even Germany (Switzerland) for the F-18C, while the USA gets F-18A.
I thought a lot about that regarding Germany, with East and West being in the same team. Are we gonna get Eurofighters on Soviet/Chinese teams lmao? Just like how we get F-104s, F-4s etc right now
Taiwan is nt existing as a country.
Officially the name of Taiwan is Republic of China
and the name of China, is People’s Republic of China
those tow countries claim to be china. and both say the other are rebel controlling a part of their country.
technically, they are a single country in civil war in peace
Looks at the BeNeLux air tree suggestion and goes down each line looking at the BR’s.
Where significant gaps?
Continues to look at each aircraft type in the tree
Where gaps in unit types and eras?
I find that statement Gaijin made very silly, and it’s been disproven. There are no massive BR gaps, there is no sudden jump from WW2 to modern. You go from normal Rank 1 planes to Rank 2 no problem, then Rank 3 has high performing Renard fighters, Rank 4 goes to Spitifres and Mustang, and Rank 5 even has a very low BR Fokker Jet trainer, together with more early jets.
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Most of those of suggestions are prototype’s, were its doubtful there’s enough documentation to fully model the vehicle.
That’s a lot of unique planes, damn.
Oh wait.
Not unique.
https://wiki.warthunder.com/F-16A
Not unique, performs identically to the Mk.V.
https://wiki.warthunder.com/Firefly_FR_Mk_V
Not unique.
https://wiki.warthunder.com/Gladiator_Mk_I_(China)
Not unique.
https://wiki.warthunder.com/Prendergast's_Spitfire_FR_Mk_XIVe
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That F-16A doesn’t have flare pods, is Block 10, doesn’t have APG-66V1, no ALR-69…
China’s Gladiator Mk1 uses a different prop.
That Spitfire uses a different model, which is sad; I hope that older Spitfire gets update to the same standard as the new one.
The Gladiator also has the wrong guns
Then at this point it literally depends on how many slight differences are needed for you to consider a plane unique.
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The M3 Lee and M4A3E8 have as many differences as the F-16A Block 10 and the F-16A Block 15 in the French tech tree.
Leopard 1 and Leopard 1A5 have more in common…
Commonality doesn’t mean copy paste.
Then what about the F-16A ADF (I don’t know much about jets so I’m genuinely asking, but that is a Block 15 version).
F-16A ADF is a fighter-interceptor, so it lacks air to ground weapons. It is a Block 15 though.
I can’t speak on its more in-depth details cause I both closed the game and am tired
That’s not an excuse when they model vehicles which never existed…
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Using that argument, the British can also lay claim to the Dutch because their entire military actually was part of the UK armed forces during the Second World War, where they fought against the Germans, in addition to the fact that the Royal Dutch Marines effectively operate as part of the Royal Marines.
You point is moot I’m afraid. This German fanaticism of asking for everyone’s gear needs to stop.
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Additionally, if they were wanting to add something like to to France, they would’ve been better of simply adding just Belgium, since that’s more or less what happened anyways. Belgium can fit decently well into the tree (not as much as Switzerland but I digress) and the Dutch could be sent off to another nation, likely the UK, as there is a much greater connection between the two countries than with Germany. I’m not a big fan of that idea personally, but in all honesty it makes may more sense than adding random Soviet crap from India that has nothing to do with the UK to the British tree. Adding the Dutch to Germany just doesn’t make any sense from a historical standpoint either, given that the Dutch and British fought alongside each other against the Germans, and the Dutch military was probably more integrated into the UK Armed Forces than it is with Germany’s anyways.
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I think this whole discussion waters down to 2 points. France wants/needs gaps filled which could have been done with native aircraft or Belgium ones like they sort of have done. Only one original aircraft from the Netherlands, two copy-pastes from which one was also used by the Belgians. So they could have just made it a Belgium subtree (aviation atleast). The second point is just about Germany not having a competitive top tier fighter right now. The arguments about historical connections is in my opinion nullefied by the fact that in history alliances change. Yes we Dutch fought against them in World War 2 but now they are our closest ally. And we weren’t really integrated into the UK armed forces. The soldiers that were left after the capitulation and managed to flee to the UK were put into seperate squadrons because every soldier is needed if you want to win a war. Thats just fighting under a different flag then working together and really integrating like we do with the Germans.
Much of the ranks of the game are there for World War 2 though, so it doesn’t make much sense to have them in the German tree anyways, especially when you consider the huge amount of allied equipment they received.
In regards to lack of German additions at top tier, that is not an issue unique to them, they are simply going through what Japan went through when the EJ Kai was their best top tier aircraft, or the Italians with the F-104S ASA, or the UK with the Phantom FGR.2 and then the Tornado F.3. Germany is extremely competitive still at top tier; the F-4F is better in some aspects than the Tornado F.3. Gaijin should’ve considered giving Hungary to Germany, as there is much more of a connection between the two than with Italy. That being said, such an addition is still unnecessary, as would be a Swiss Hornet or Dutch F-16, as Germany is still competitive, they will have to go through what other nations did and wait some time before their next top tier, which is likely coming sooner than we expect, I would not be surprised if Typhoon comes to the game within a year from now. But that is an entirely different topic.
This is the reason why a BeNeLux TT made sense, as it combined the two together, and left enough unique equipment to keep the TT going via BP, events, etc.
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If the Dutch were to be added to Germany, they would really be limited to only modern equipment, as the German tech tree is already packed with vehicles.
Then again, Germany only is constrained by their air force. Both their naval, helicopter and ground choices are plenty competitive. In my opinion it would be shortsighted to add the Dutch to Germany in the long run of the game.
Most uniquely Dutch planes are also concentrated in the time periods where the Dutch fought against the Germans (this time period from 1930-1950 Is also the main focus of the game for most players, as rank III is still by far the most played rank), it would be nonsensical to add these planes to a German tech tree. Now if you only look at modern equipment and don’t care about 1930s-1970s vehicles, then I could understand your reasoning, but then these ‘older’ Dutch vehicles would still need a place in War thunder. That place obviously not being Germany.
And about integration: you’re aware that the Netherlands also does this with Belgium in the BeNeSam?
The BeNeLux made the most sense as a separate tech tree, but the Dutch did not really have a clear option of the current ‘host’ nations to choose from for being a subtree in. Lacking either technological ties or having trouble-filled political ones. Out of all possible nations sadly France or Sweden would have made the most sense for a sub tree (if the Dutch were not to be split in pre-ww2, WW2 and post WW2 that is).
If it came to only 2-4 very modern vehicles like the PRTL GWI cheetah, Leo 2 or CV9035NL, then I would not really bat an eye at their introduction in Germany, but place a Fokker D.23 or a centurion mk.5 into Germany and I would protest such a choice every time.
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Yes I agree that this is just a phase for German Top tier aviation. Its always a back and forth between which nation has the best aircraft or tank. We see it almost every patch with the USA and Russian tech trees. I was just merely summarizing the point because I have seen arguments made for both sides that have some validity to them.
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Yes, like I mentioned to AVROCULCAN adding the BeNeLux subtree or only the Netherlands to Germany wouldn’t have made much sense. In the timeline of modern military vehicles (so WW1 and onwards) the Netherlands has only recently integrated with the Bundeswehr and this is mainly our ground forces. We have far more cooperation with the Belgians like BeNeSam as you mentioned and also shared airspace security. Taking all this into account makes it difficult to add it to one TT. And being biased ofcourse I would have really liked to see the standalone TT. In my eyes it would have been a bit like the Chinese TT as an interesting mixture of different vehicles from the BeNeLux and other nations.
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