Discussion regarding the Netherlands and Belgium getting added to France

[OliverXRed]

With the BeNeLux vehicles being added as a sub tree instead of their own tech tree, then i think the best way to add the Dutch vehicles, would have been as a sub tree to German tech tree, where it would have been split, so WW2 and earlier vehicles are in the French tree and then post war vehicles in the German tech tree.

While this would make it so that people had to research two tech trees to get all the Dutch vehicles and would not be able to combine them, in historical context it would be a better addition (outside of the BeNeLux tech tree).

[FlipAllTheTables]

I’ve heard from a friend that the Fokker G.1 should apparently be able to mount 23 mm cannons?

[Thomas_Belgium]

Yes, the prototype had them.

There are 3 possible G.1 variants.

• Fokker G.1 Prototype
  2 x 1 23 mm Madsen autocannons (Forward firing)
  2 x 1 7.7 mm M.36 FN-Browning machine gun (Forward firing)
  1 x 1 7.7 mm M.36 FN-Browning machine gun (Rear gunner)
• Fokker G.1 (Wasp)
  4 x 1 7.92 mm M.36 FN-Browning machine guns (Forward firing)
  1 x 1 7.7 mm M.20 Lewis machine gun (Rear gunner)
• Fokker G.1 (Mercury)
  8 x 1 7.92 mm M.36 FN-Browning machine guns (Forward firing)
  1 x 1 7.7 mm M.36 FN-Browning machine gun (Rear gunner)

All of them had different engines.

source: BeNeLux (Belgium, Netherlands & Luxembourg) Air Forces Techtree

[FlipAllTheTables]

23 mm Madsen cannons? Any idea what the performance would be like?

[Thomas_Belgium]

The HE round variant should have almost double the HE filler compared to the 20mm variant (like the early french and swedish 20mm variants).

Source: https://www.dws-xip.pl/encyklopedia/lotdz23-dk/ (pretty good) & Madsen 23 mm gun for american fighter aircrafts | alternatehistory.com (dubious)

[super_cacti]

I have suggested all three of the main G.1 variants on this forum if you want to look more into it.

Fokker G.1 Hispano (Prototype), the prototype with a punch!

poll poll Hello everyone! Today I’m going to suggest the prototype of the legendairy Fokker G.1! [image] The Fokker G.1 Hispano Prototype (Early) Source: Foto's This is the Fokker G.1 Hispano (Prototype)! Quick explanation about the (Early) and (Late) I use for the photos of the aircraft in this post: The G.1 Hispano Prototype was worked on throughout it’s testing phase, and later during this testing phase the aircraft was given larger oil coolers under the engines. This is a small chan…

Fokker G.1 Mercury, the Grim Reaper!

poll poll Hello everyone! Today I’m going to suggest a variant of the legendairy Fokker G.1! [image] Fokker G.1 Mercury, Nr 301 Source: Foto's This is the Fokker G.1 Mercury! History

Spoiler

Following the construction and succes of the Fokker G.1 Hispano Prototype (Which had been given the Nickname “The Grim Reaper”), Fokker decided to approach the Dutch Air Force regarding the aircraft. The Fokker G.1 had been built in secret at Fokker’s own risk and money, and so the sudden appearance …

Fokker G.1 Wasp, the smaller G.1

poll poll Hello everyone! Today I’m going to suggest a variant of the legendairy Fokker G.1! [image] Fokker G.1 Wasp, Nr 342 Source: Foto's This is the Fokker G.1 Wasp! History

Spoiler

<a class="lightbox" href="https://forum-en-cdn.warthunder.com/original/3X/8/1/814851989cc0d3c92a5efba79933c0f14c0ee1f5.jpeg" data-download-href="/uploads/short-url/irGxdR8FHl6EivjbI7OvFytBkep.jpeg?dl=1" title="image" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">[image…

As said by @Thomas_Belgium the Hispano prototype has the 23mm Madsen autocannons

[Thomas_Belgium]

faulty link for the prototype: Fokker G.1 Hispano (Prototype), the prototype with a punch!

[super_cacti]

Haha I was just a second to late xD
I fixed the link just now

[LeGrandSarrazin]

I’ll just repost what I said in the devblog:

Extremely disappointed about this. Benelux is an extremely poor choice for France and will be dull as hell. The additions will be boring C&P and will be attractive to no one. As said ad infinitum, the Swiss would have been the infinitely superior choice for France, due to their cool, unique vehicles, such as Shark FL20, which Germany does not need, as they have native versions of almost all Swiss vehicles. Benelux, or at least the Dutch should’ve gone to Germany, with the Swiss going to France!!

As a French main since the birth of the tree, which I preordered for all 4 French trees, getting the Benelux would be disastrous. The addition for France are gonna be so bland it’s just sad. There is so much more potential in the Swiss than with the Dutch. The very most important part, as i said is Shark FL20, cause w/o the Swiss France CAN NOT receive anything with FL20 as it was only mounted on two hulls: Mowag Shark and the Marder… on the Marder, it was known as Clovis which Germany will get someday regardless. They DO NOT need the Swiss to get the same exact weapon systems on thier own native platforms, while France does not have that luxury:

Spoiler

Another example is the Shark Wildcat AA, which again, Germany already has a native version of in the Fuchs Wildcat:

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6_CKKfVnVw

Ofc, this doesn’t even go into the D.3800/1/2/3’s, which are souped up ultimate MS406s:

Spoiler

All of this to say. the Benelux, or at the bare minimum, the Dutch should not go to France, as others such as the Swiss would be infinitely more useful, interesting, and in the end fun than otherwise.

Please please please reconsider this guys!!!

[gewooneenpiloot]

Just hope that planes like: Fokker T.V D.xxi D.xxiii T.ix and De Schelde S.21

[HuberrtPL]

German mains cry best think that happens to French main in a while

[S3b5]

I’m still under the impression that this is misguided. I’m all for the BeNeLux being added, but adding basically part of the German Military (the Dutch Armed Forces) to France just seems like a kick in the teeth. Germany would’ve been helped by the addition of the Dutch F-16s, to say nothing about the future Leopard 2s (in progress) for France, which don’t really fit there at all.

Belgium can stay in France, I think that’s a good fit. The addition of more Mirages to France, along with the general WW2 aspect, is welcome. I’m not so sure about the F-16s, but whatever. Along with a lot of vehicles that would fit well into what is already established for France, Belgium seems perfect there.

But the Netherlands in France just seems like a misguided attempt at parity. It sounds like a good idea on paper, but I feel like in practice it would just lead to the French tree being filled with copy and paste vehicles that don’t really fit there at all. And in my opinion, at the very least, the Dutch would fit way better into the German tree as it stands today.
Not only do they bolster the powerful ground lineup, but they provide a solution to the top tier air problem in the form of the various F-16s the Dutch used throughout the Cold War and into the Modern Era.
But as a whole, I can kinda see it. It would suck to split the BeNeLux up, but maybe that’s just the price that should be paid.

[Thomas_Belgium]

@S3b5

as it stands today

Then they would have to split up The Netherlands… No-one wants Fokkers in Germany (unless they are captured ones).

[S3b5]

I guess, but it still just feels weird. I’m mostly thinking about it from the top tier perspective, since at this point that’s what the game feels geared towards, but I see your point.
It sounds stupid but what I’d really want to see is like the Fokkers in France at the beginning and then the Dutch tree stops there and picks up again in Germany past like 8.0 or so. But you can’t have everything I guess.

[AlvisWisla]

The confirmed unique vehicles:
F-16A, F-16AM, Firefly MkIV, Fokker G1, Gladiator Mk1, Spitfire FR MkXIV, and Mirage 5BA.

7 unique aircraft.
3 are copy-paste.

This is an excellent addition to the game, and I cannot wait to play Bene aircraft in my French tree.

Especially since Germany has 4+ nations of their own in their tech tree.
I’m glad there’s no separate tech tree with more copy-paste than China.

@RAYhill
Swiss are already in Germany.

[Nynora]

@S3b5

part of the German Military (the Dutch Armed Forces)

I keep seeing German mains hammer this point down, but the Dutch Airforce and Navy aren’t integrated into the Bundeswehr and to act like the integration instantly means The Netherlands should be added to Germany is bizarre. And ignores the history between the two countries.

[S3b5]

The way I see it right now is that modern Netherlands would fit seamlessly into Germany, as their militaries are intertwined so tightly. The Dutch military is, iirc, just part of the Bundeswehr in very specific divisions. Which is why I dislike their addition to France as a whole unit.

But WW2 Netherlands, on the other hand, would not. They would not fit into Germany for obvious reasons, and so I see the reason to include them in France. WW2 BeNeLux is perfect for France, just as modern Netherlands would be perfect for Germany. The ideal way (imo) to implement the Netherlands would be to start in France, stopping about 5.0 (or wherever indigenous stuff runs out), and then continue in Germany, representing the alliances of whatever period it happens to be at. But you can’t have two lines of the same country in two different trees without pulling weird shenanigans, which Gaijin isn’t going to do.
And that disappoints me. Because the addition of the BeNe(Lux) seems like such a good idea, but it feels as if it was implemented without thought. It feels like a disservice to modern France to have the tree basically taken over by the Leopards, and it also feels like a disservice to modern Germany to miss out on what is basically part of their own military.

The Belgians are fine tho.

[Thomas_Belgium]

@S3b5

Dutch military

Only the three armoured divisions are integrated into their respective German units. Nuclear/Biochemical/Disaster response are a Belgium/Netherlands cooperation.

The Dutch Navy is under the BeNeSam (=Belgium & Netherlands Samenwerking/cooperation) admirality. (same uniforms, same ships for some parts and same training as well for some ships).

The Dutch Air Force shares the BeNeLux airspace, as both Belgium and The Netherlands share the Defence.

[S3b5]

Oh, then I misunderstood how it worked.
Still, I think it would just fit better in Germany based on existing equipment and filling gaps. That’s just me though, and personally I think an independent BeNeLux tree from the start would’ve been the better play.

[Thomas_Belgium]

@S3b5

an independent BeNeLux tree from the start

Yes.

idk where they got this from, but I disagree with the devs statement, smh