[Discussion] Balance, Bias, Matchmaking and Battle Ratings

In the spirit of improvement here are some of my suggestions. A bit about me I started playing war thunder back when it was only an Air to Air game and have stuck around ever since playing it off and on taking breaks in the middle. I gave up on the air game mode at some point (more on that later) and have primarily played this game over the last years in Ground Realistic Battles.

Ground Realistic Battles

This has to be the flag ship game mode that most of the community plays and it can use a lot of help. I am better equipped to answer some of the things here then other places so this is where most of my input will come from.

Maps
The maps need a lot of rework. There are maybe 2 - 3 maps that are ok and I am genuinely excited to see rest I would be ok if you removed them from the game entirely.

There are a lot of things that can be done here. Let the community vote out maps that they don’t like and replace them with more maps every patch. This will ensure that the game stays fresh and everyone can play whatever BR they like on these maps.

Maps could be community designed. You can give the tools to the community to design maps and every patch pick some that you like and put them in the game to test. You can weight them as time goes on based on likes and dislikes and eventually remove them when the next patch rolls around. People love your game enough that they will do it for free.

Spawn killing has to be addressed. It is one of the most frustrating parts of the game itself. You can make maps where spawn killing is just not advantageous or people who do it can be locked out for a minute before they can respawn. This way it just discourages this behavior there are other things you can do as well. Like the tanks carry their invulnerability for a minute or a couple of minutes. This will make the enemy team have to give them some breathing room before they can attack.

Premiums I honestly don’t have a problem with copy pasted premiums from the tech tree. That is probably the most balanced way of doing it. You are not depriving a vehicle from the general population so every one can experience it. There are so many unique vehicles locked behind premium or events in the game that it saddens me that people won’t be able to experience them unless they open their wallets. USA can have an entire lineup around 9.3 and 10 from just the even / premium vehicles. I have spent way too much money on this game. So its not like I am against spending money. But there are vehicles I can never get because how much they cost stuff like the obj 279, XM8 some of the Centurions.

Occasionally having a unique tanks as premium is also good. But when stuff like RAH 66 or T58 gets locked behind a paywall you have kind of lost me a little bit. This is coming from someone that doesn’t mind spending the money. A good example of a premium done right is AL - Khalid. Its counterpart MBT 2000 exists with in the tech tree and its different enough to buy. You can also make tanks that have unique commanders who were real life people. This might be harder to do talking to the estate of the person in question and what not but it won’t take a unique vehicle away and it would be something cool to see from history.

In theory I don’t have a problem with the Senrai Maidens tanks. Except that you should pay actual artists for those tanks and give people an options to not see their non historical camos in game. If someone likes that camo I think they should be able to enjoy it same with pillows but please allow the rest of us to opt out of it and retain the military semi realistic fantasy that we want to experience.

Speaking of cosmetics, please disable bushes or allow us to do so on the client end. This mostly ruins the new player experience as they are still new to the game and can’t see the weak spots. I having played the game long enough don’t care as much. Since I know roughly where to shoot the tanks. They make tanks harder to see and overall just ruins the experience of most people playing the game.

BRs need balancing some brs get way too many uptiers and some get way too many down tiers. This is n’t a hard thing to see why. When Tiger 2 is as popular of vehicle of course it will see many down tiers than up tiers. There are just that many of them in queue and as a result we see the outcome that we see. There are also not many lineups around 7.3 couple that with no premiums at that BR you have a recipe for un-fun. There are other BRs in which either there are no premium vehicles so likely see less people queueing up for them. Or the Brs they see have vehicles that are that much better for example. Why would you get the German Colvis when Turms III is such a strong vehicle? So something needs to be done yes it will make the queues longer but I am willing to wait since I rather play a decent balanced game than the one that ruins my experience for the day. Yes I understand that not everyone is like this but I don’t want a game. I want a decent game where I am not just cannon fodder.

Selective Realism needs to stop. It gives a bad impression to the player base about German - Bias or American - Bias or Russian - Bias. I know a lot of the changes are done to balance the nations against one another and I am fine with the turret basket being a thing if that is the main reason for the change. Russian win rates are suffering and Nato tanks need to be nerfed. Perfectly acceptable explanation so please don’t couch it in well the document says …

M735 is another great example. I am sure that XM1 and all the tanks that were using it at some point were over performing but that topic has never been revisited and those tanks don’t perform nearly as well now than they did back then. But when you couch your explanations in documents. Then you should follow them regardless of what they say. Apply the same standards across the board.

Player skill needs to be taken into account when buffing or nerfing tanks. Why on Gods good earth is XM803 still 9.0? That it can still fight stuff like T-54s and AMX 30s is just insane to me. Turms III sat at 8.3 for such a long time ruining the lower brackets. At least it wasn’t insanely hard to kill but XM803 is fast has a dart and laser range finder and can fight 8.0 is a bit nuts.

While we are on the subject why is MBT 70 for the German and American not have the same reload? when the T-64 lost a second from its reload most of the tanks were rebalanced. But the American MBT 70 is a full 1.5 second slower in firing and sits at the same BR. The German one is just so much better. American might get a better reload for ATGMs but who is using those on that tank?

Lastly, don’t nerf tanks because of smaller nation tax. France is probably the best example of this a lot of their tanks are over br’ed like there is not tomorrow. BatChat 25t has not business being 8.0 that is absurd. There are other tanks too but that one is just so egregious. This drives people away from smaller nations and playing certain BRs. I don’t want to play France 8.0 cause its so bad. Also running into an XM803 would be just the icing on this sad cake. The game is hard enough without giving myself a handicap.

I am sure that there is a lot more that I can say. Like how putting the BMP-T was a bad idea all around and it should be moved up in BR. It shouldn’t take months to move problematics tanks up or nerf them.

completely agreed.Also we are playing the same game modes since 2013.There is no achivement feeling anymore.No reason to fight.We are not protecting or attacking anyone.Specially at top tier air rb 16 vs 16 is an insane mode to fight with fire arh missiles at both side.It should be 6 vs 6 or less to fight and have fun for everyone.Its just gambling for everyone for now to play top tier air rb.We need more game modes for every type of vehicles but specially air.These are some reasons why WT losing players after all this years.Cuze grinding in a circle is no fun anymore with this old and unplayable game modes.Thats not attractive anmore for anyone.Specially for new players and old players who grinded most of vehicles they wanted most like me.

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Realism needs to be either consistent across the board (so everything is as ridiculous as SPAA) or needs to be abandoned in favor of actually good game design (so SPAA don’t feel safe pushing tanks that are watching the corners they are on). Either every nation gets every single vehicle they ever tested, captured, or prototyped, or you stop giving random bullshit to america or germany or japan (British/Hungarian T-55???)

This is a matchmaker problem not a BR problem. A competently designed matchmaking system would not put you into a full uptier 0.1 seconds after queuing in because a competent developer would realize that quality of games matters far more than quantity of games. Queue times need to increase across the board so better matches are played.

just delete them entirely from the code, no refunds!

If they weren’t AI slop, the Senrai Maidens stuff would be an objectively good thing for the community because it’s a really easy way to see if whoever is speaking should be listened to or not when it comes to literally anything.

An entirely outside entity, unrelated to WT, needs to design the maps. Neither the community nor Gaijin have good opinions on map design. I do not trust WT players to make maps that aren’t entirely favored to APHE, snipers, or CAS. I don’t trust the community that thinks Carpathians is a good map to make a better map. I also don’t trust the company that thinks Fire Arc, a map that is only fun without snipers, is a good top tier map, a place that is ONLY sniper tanks.

And related to this, maps that make ATGM carriers incredibly broken should not be in the game. ATGM carriers and other vehicle types that are only good on certain kinds of maps should not be in the game. No, they aren’t “overpowered” but they are a balancing disaster. They’re either completely useless or are able to hold a sightline solo. That’s dumb, we all know it’s dumb.

Also who’s bright idea was it to put the IA.58A at 4.3? This is the same BR as the Typhoon Mk1/L, which is worse in literally every way. The Wyvern is a higher BR than that and it can’t turn for shit. The Strikemaster is 6.3 and has a way worse armament than the IA. The Hornet is 6.0 and is worse in practically every way than the IA. And those are just examples from my own tech tree.

баланс?




What do you think of this in general, would it be fair to balance the planes like this?

They dont have the same reload irl and its not enough weaker to justify being at 9.0 with xm803

It can’t go lower or its just overpowered, there is too much br compression

putting the IA.58 at 4.3 is like putting the centurion mark 2 at 4.3. It is quite literally better than anything it can possibly face. It’s the best aircraft at this BR range by a country mile and it’s absurd that nobody is talking about it. but nobody gives a shit about low/mid tier.

Yak-3,9(and variants), whatever soviet plane except some armored attackers, Spitfires, Seafire, Wyvern, F8F, somewhat brained P-51, Pyoremyrsky, japanese planes except A6M(or even it if has alt advantage) just can abuse its either low flatter speed (or general lack of speed, it cant exceed 600 kph basically) or general FP weaknesses quite easily. Also, it can climb only sideways. Also it’s worth pointing out the fact that it’s extremely fragile even vs .50cals, and also its random HS.804 damage requiring long bursts to kill things. It can do things against not-so-agile planes in a turnfight, but generally, its severely limited by limited WEP, fragile DM, random cannons and flatter levels similar/lower of those of Yak-3, and, in general, it requires understanding of basic gameplay of game and quite a setup to do well against single-engine fighters. Two main potent things for even a newbie are nose authority and pampero rockets with time fuse, so, i guess, avoid headons in that case if you get constantly wrecked in those or get better cuz it just falls apart even from .50 cal burst. (And bri’ish tree is just bad in general (except Spits i guess) cuz in comp with planes from other TTs it has easily abusable characteristics). In GRB it might be kind of busted due to good armament choice, but may i remind you of one TT generally consisting of quite strong CAS planes?

Queue time has nothing to do with full BR uptiers. I get them if waiting 5 seconds or 1 minute.

What I’ve suggested before is having the BR spread a maximum of 2 steps up or down.

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Queue time has everything to do with the amount of uptiers. the matchmaker prioritizes queue time over EVERYTHING. If the matchmaker prioritized balancing games over queue times, there would not be nearly as many uptiers.

british CAS sucks ass actually it’s CAP we’re good at, and if I’m being realistic, the IA58 is only such a problem because it’s the same sweatlord max levels coming down to use the hummel who wasted money on it so the BR range is going to get A LOT more playable when these “people” get bored. That being said it’s still too low.

Typhoon is much faster (590 km/h vs 520 of Pucara), have much better climbrate (around 23 m/s vs 18 m/s) and also have better turnrate (too lazy to test sustained turnte, but I know that Yak-3 will stomp Pucara in duel and typhoon is better than Yak)
So true OP plane is your typhoon and it’s undertiered.
Pucara is worse than Ki-96 at 3.7 and Xp-50 at 4.0

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Then maybe you can explain how I get a full uptier after waiting 15 seconds for a battle.

more of a +5minute wait time thing.

the typhoon cannot turn for shit unless you baby the engine because its flaps are blocked at high speed. the plane is not that good imo.

also for the record I’m talking exclusively ground battles.

because the matchmaker is garbage and you’re queuing for a slightly less popular Nation/BR combo than the one you’re getting uptiered into.

Make GB suffer less. Its time

dude, typhoon CAN turn, it just rolls like shit

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it’s a low velocity 75 so it’s still allergic to doing anything to shermen or soviet tanks unfortunately, at least it’s a little harder to kill you (if your enemy is stupid)