First time in the history of man am I hearing J-8F and ‘superior flight performance’ in same sentence.
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I don’t know if you’ve touched top tier air in the last few months, but HMD is kind of a big deal especially with 40g ARH missiles. With its current loadout you wouldn’t even want to take any IR missiles and would go with 4 Derby’s instead. Half the vehicles you mentioned are outclassed by this purely because of the HMD and ARH missiles. The F-14B has awful ARH missiles and Aim-7F’s which are dogshit at a BR with Fox 3s that force you to notch and lose lock, or rely on terrain to attempt to multipath the missile, which is made even worse by the fact the kfir has HMD. Above 700km/h this thing performs better than any vehicle at the BR and is easily one of the best one circle fighters. As of this moment the Kfir accelerates faster than the J-8F, turns better at higher speeds and equal/slightly better at low speeds, has a higher max speed and has more ARH missiles which is really all that matters as the Pythons are garbage at the BR they’re placed at. 74 CM’s is more than enough if you’re remotely good at the game and the fact it has 4 IR missiles is literally made irrelevant by the fact you can take the Derby’s instead. I don’t know if you think this thing is a Mirage 3 but the F-4E performs no where near as well as this thing, and is completely outclassed regardless of the situation. It also still does not have it’s radar modeled correctly and will most likely be getting AESA radar as the dev blog stated it would. None of the vehicles you mentioned besides the ICE gets ARH missiles so I will completely ignore them as they are pretty much irrelevant since this things BR is based solely on how good the weaponry is. The F-4F ICE lacks HMD and good acceleration and gets absolutely destroyed by this thing in a dog fight, and also has the same amount of ARH missiles.
Few people play the J-8s, and fewer post on the forums.
J-8s retain energy superior to Kfir, F-4, F-5E, while having a higher AOA limit than F-5E and Kfir.
J-8F also has a similar time to climb as F-15.
@SolareHQ
I’ve been playing top BR consistently from 2022 to present. It’s one of my favorite game modes.
I use HMD for thrust vectoring missiles.
I however much prefer ACM spam for every other missile type.
As I said, it’s preference.
Also, please format your posts.
Kfir accelerates slower:
Also dogfights aren’t common in air RB, what matters more is energy retention.
The Kfir is a Mirage 5 with a Phantom engine… that’s its airframe.
Also you don’t launch on things that launched on you, you wait for a better launch window.
AMRAAMs don’t make or break some aircraft. F-15, Su-27, and Su-33 are OP despite it not having AMRAAMS.
Why are you comparing it to those? Compare J-8Fs flight performance to SU-27, MiG-29, F-15A, and all the others at its BR. J-8F has no issues climbing, that is not its issue. Thing is still a brick. It has an artificially inflated BR because of 2x PL-12 and a bunch of PL-8 with no IRCCM.
The Kfir C.10 Block 60 is far from being in its final form. Simply put it’s not only missing its historically used Python 5 and I-Derby ER (for balancing reasons ofc), but it doesn’t even have the I-Derby and Python 4. Not to mention it still lacks its AESA radar and such. The one ingame that viewable just represents a standard C.10 in its current form, it’s not the event prize in that respect.
It has Python 4s in the files, but not ingame yet. I hope it does get them ofc, as 70G Israeli bias stick would be so funny to see… it would be a great way to test the next gen of IR missiles, as it’s not thrust vectoring and was literally designed to counter the R-73. It would make sense to add it as the first of the next gen IR missiles given it came first, as well as when looking at its capabilities.
By “energy retention” you mean turns like a mig-19 right?
I’ve put in hundreds of games between the two J-8’s we have in game and am very intimate with it’s pros and cons.
You’re running both with max fuel and fuel tanks which has much less of an effect on the J-8F since it has more thrust and is a higher weight in general. You’re also 40 meters higher in the Kfir not that it really matters, but it definitely has an impact on the results. The Kfir will also continue to out pace it at higher speeds as the J-8F slows down more, it also climbs faster than the J-8F.
The Fox-3s on this thing is literally a make or break, without them it would be useless at 13.0 and with them it’s one of the strongest in the BR bracket. In a head on 1v1 with any non fox-3 carrying aircraft this thing should win every time, as with Fox-1s you have to either commit to staying locked on the enemy or give up position and lock to notch an incoming missile. This is literally the reason why this aircraft is so good as it has all the necessary elements to beat any 13.0 aircraft without much of an issue.
HMD is good whether you prefer it or not, it lets you fire missile much sooner than with ACM especially with HMD, and lets you have a large head start in notching any incoming missiles.
literally unplayable
Python 4s been in files for over a year its so funny. And yes I 100% agree with you and putting these missiles on an event vehicle would be fitting as there would be a limited window for all the players to obtain it rather than putting it in one nation unfairly. I think even though the airframe would be mediocre at 13.7/14.0 you’d only get at max 4 of these missiles if you sacrificed having any ARH missiles at all. I compared it to the SU25BM since it got R73’s before the update had came out and was used as a kind of “test bed” for IRCM missiles in AIR RB (besides the magics but they were severely nerfed before the update). I’m really hoping we don’t get them all in an update and have every aircraft be a new version of aircraft already in the game then shoving them to 14.7 as I feel that would kind of be a cheap cop out, but who knows it might be kind of needed with things like MICA IR coming in the near future.
It’s good to chart aircraft performance.
J-8F isn’t a brick. If it retains energy above 14 degrees per second, it’s not a brick.
Otherwise you’re close to calling F-15E a brick just cause it retains energy worse than a Mig-29.
J-8F’s BR is correct and balanced, there’s nothing artificial about it.
All the aircraft in my posts I’ve used personally.
@SolareHQ
Mig-19 retains energy like an F-16, comparing them to J-8s is not healthy.
You’ve put no games in Kfirs, you’ve put no games in non-premium Phantoms. If you’re going to mention your own record, I’m going to fact-check your record.
With AMRAAMs, Kfir is a mediocre 13.0 until the F-15s, Su-27s, etc get moved to 13.3, then Kfir becomes an average 13.0 as there are still one or two superior options.
Begging for Kfir C10 to be 14.x+ with Python 4s makes no sense cause its flight performance is Phantom levels without the missile load.
I didn’t mention retaining energy I said it turns. Energy retention is only relevant to a certain point when considering higher tiered vehicles, especially when it comes at sacrificing turn rate. Also why would it matter if I use a premium phantom or a regular one? especially in America where the only other phantom that’s relevant is the F-4E as its better at CAS. Why would I go through stock grinding objectively worse phantoms like the F-4J or using the shit box that is the F-4C? (I forgot it was moved down it might actually be relevant now)
Also despite my record I have put in around 50+ games in a spaded F-4F ICE and plenty in the Kfir Canard as well as the mirage 3, not that its very relevant as the Kfir block 60 is heavily upgraded and would be similar in comparing game experience in something like an AV-8C to the AV-8B plus.
I also didn’t say I wanted it to be 14.0+ I did however say 13.7/14.0 depending on its performance in game, which could be comparable to giving something like the SU25BM R-73s as its has a bad flight performance and is artificially raised by its weapon loadouts. It would also be a unique event vehicle with unique weaponry for a while that would help in deciding how to proceed with additions like the AIM-9X, R-74, etc.
Testing a new generation of IR missiles on something as ridiculous as an F-15 or Su27 would be ridiculous and would result in them being under tiered/overtired like they were on release last time.
Also I thought of another good example for a recently removed feature for balance which is the brimstones not having IR guidance… so idk what that comment was about
@SolareHQ
Energy retention has nothing to do with sacrificing turn rate.
F-4E is trash at CAS in ground RB, utter garbage and that movement of goalposts is irrelevant to this discussion.
New gen IR missiles will be tested on new tech tree vehicles, not event vehicles.
Turn fast = looking other direction faster, thus having to gain speed in THAT direction. This is not a game mechanic this is just physics and the J-8F has good energy retention because of how slowly it turns. Facing off against a monster 1 circle fighter with Derby’s is a good way to get a guaranteed loss.
Also I’ve used the F-4E in GRB and its completely fine I have no idea what you’re on about, you can take 6 AGM 65’s on it as well as 2 TV guided bombs at a decently low BR, its better than something like the F-5E or A10 at that BR. Only thing that’s bad on it is the radar but the missiles just guide themselves most of the time once they’re close enough so it’s not that big of a deal.
Also Gaijin literally has a history with testing new weaponry on event vehicles like the FJ-4B, Object 292, Tornado IDS MFG (AS.34 not that they’re very useful as of now), SU25BM, F14IRIAF, etc. This is not a new concept for them whatsoever and can help in making decisions in adding these weaponry to the game.
@SolareHQ
10Gs over 2x degrees per second is not “turn slowly”.
Kfir is not and has never been a “1 circle plane” against anything other than early cold war fighters not designed for it.
292, Tornado IDS, and FJ-4B weren’t tests.
What?? The mirage 3/5 and all its subsequent upgraded exports and variants are 1 circle fighters, its literally a delta wing fighter that loses all its energy if the fight goes on too long so idk what you’re talking about. Also the J-8F cant even pull 7g’s at 700km/h meanwhile the Kfir can pull 9+
The 292 is a test for 150mm cannons/APFSDS in the game, the FJ-4B got the first mouse guided ATGM, and the tornado IDS was a test for advanced anti-ship missiles (which are still useless to this day).
Mirage 5’s peak G limit is 9, anything that pulls more than 9Gs will out-circle it.
292 is not a test for APFSDS and 150mm cannons, neither are new to the game and have been in the game for years.
Mouse guided ATGMs were in the game before FJ-4B.
And anti-ship guidance was not new.
And no lineup too…
Dude; no one deserves jack crap in a ftp game.
Just a cool visual effect that works pretty well for you to not be seen by CAS.
f4e is not very good in cas, much rather bring a7e with lantirn and agm62er