Design and Ultimate limit load

Game Discussion Simulator Battle
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FBW (and some other) planes like EF, Rafale, Gripen, F16, etc, are limited to 9G/Alpha, so the values like 14g (or even more) should be limited to actual 9 for most planes. When loaded, the limit should be even less, usually 5.5-6g.
EF eg. is G limited, while F16 and Mig29 eg. are Alpha limited, which roughly equals to 9g, as well.

EF https://www.eurojet.de/aircraft/
Rafale Rafale specifications and performance data
Gripen https://www.saab.com/globalassets/products/aeronautics/gripen-c-series/gripen_c_factsheet.pdf
F16 https://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/dam/lockheed-martin/aero/documents/F-16/Jan20_Product%20Card%20F-16%20Block%207072%20media.pdf
Su27 (pic in Screenshots)
Mig 29 (pic in Screenshots) limited to 26°Alpha subsonic and 15°Alpha supersonic, which results in ~9/7.5g limit.

The plane’s EFH (Equivalent Flight Hours) are given for the Design limit load , which is commonly 9g for fighter planes. Loads above DLL shorten the plane’s life exponentially, there’s a possibility of aeroplasic deformations on critical components (wing, engine, etc) and non critical components may experience a failure.
At Ultimate limit load, the plane experiences a failure of the critical components and isn’t airworthy anymore.
As shown above, listed planes and many others are limited to 9g in flight.
ULL of 13.5g (at Safety Factor 1.5) isn’t reachable if flight control system (digital, analog, or mechanical) operates normally. So, in reality a plane with the DLL of 9g and a usual safety factor of 1.5, would experience a critical component failure (wing, canards, etc…) latest at 13.5g, while it would possibly occur even sooner, sometimes between 9 and 13.5g.

However, as it has been pointed to me, the game completely disregards DLL and uses ULL, which is patently wrong. Considering, we’re deep in FBW and other means of flight control methods era, it’d we high time to get this corrected, instead of watching planes pull 15-16g.

ajfwe

su27 img1
su27 img11118×689 109 KB

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Go play DCS if you really want that. You can be limited to 9Gs if you want to play in dampening the whole game.

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Bro disrespects Sim.

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This is SB subforum. Each and every 15-16g maneuver would result in wings folding on you. This isn’t a matter of whether some variant has LGB integrated or not, unlike some other variant of the same type. What we currently have is game breaking, considering the way it skews the simulation experience.
Also, this should be in RB as well.

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The Gripen at least has been shown to have a higher than 9g limit when dampening is turned off (i think it was shown to be 12g or somewhere around there). With dampening on the limit is 9g.
(Community Bug Reporting System)
A bit more info from the bug reporting mods here: (Community Bug Reporting System)

Can’t comment on the other ones though.

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Yeah, but you still have to push the button (or voice command, or something) to override an FCS 9g limit. Also, if you really insist on that, then the corresponding damage should be simulated as well, since eating into the airframe isn’t simulated in the game.

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That switch in the Gripen is just called “Krig” (“War”) and is flipped once at start giving the plane an increased engine boost and flight envelope that otherwise would not be sustainable in routine flying. There is a second safety for the g limit though in the form of a “notch” in the flight stick movement so that when pulled back it sort of “stops” at 9g but the pilot can pull a bit extra to get the last three.
So in a wartime situation that setting would already be activated by default.

This would however possibly be an interesting addition to SIM actually. Depending on how it is implemented.

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Back with the 3 secs, or like flaps, gradually increase damage to hp?
Sim has the damping switch tho rb dont, but rb do can have a sustained/ instant switch

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That’s what I meant, but I’m not sure whether it allows extra Gs, or extra alpha.
Extra alpha/power can be useful at stalling speeds, but I’m still not sure whether the FCS would allow above 9g.
I mean, 13.5g is gonna kill the plane in <3sec, so 12g are gonna kill it in <10?

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Its really annoying that they stated that SAS Damping is set to the hard limits. The hard limits are stated as 12G and the soft limit is 9G but then set SAS Damping to 9G.

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++ in FBW planes you shouldnt be able to use manual.

Only the few excepted aircraft such as Su-27 with its ACS switch.

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I think it ties in with the fact that Gaijin cant model unstable aircraft. Gripen, Typhoon, F-16, they all have the same FM modeling issues

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Indeed, although I haven’t played a true FBW plane yet, so I didn’t even know you can fly a FBW plane “by hand”!? I thought FBW “on” is by default, when you spawn in the cockpit.
Oh, bless GJ’s “developers”. :D

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But the FBW, damping - manual limiting could help no?

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It might. But I wouldnt be surprised if there was some reason they couldnt do that. Like it causing issues with simple controls

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Real interesting, been discussing about this a lot lately with friends.

Sweet to find a topic talking about this.

We might joyfully smile about how fun it is to fly in sim but it is so extremely unrealistic and lacking.

Same goes with how radar mechanics / functions.

Both of these topics can go very deep and are lacking.

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Yeah… Was discussing radar issues in the Typhoon thread earlier. Why settings like the ability to manually adjust the angle of the radar is locked behind the relative control setting is really annoying and why you cant just toggle that with a keybind at a bare minimum.

Unfortunately… Most of the community want easy settings for RB and dont really care about SB. Which is why we are still shooting down F-86 Sabres with our Typhoons and Rafales because Gaijin doesnt really care.

But man I’d love overhauls for things like Radar controls, CCRP, autopilot, GMR/TFR, etc

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18

For Gripen it specifically mentioned +3g extra in emergencies. So the GCAS would then likely also be allowed those extra 3g’s.

likely, it could be implemented into sim as the 2 first seconds being “free” and anything over that will gradually start damaging the frame at like 10% per second or something? They could also add sound indicators that damage is occurring in the form of cracking and snapping sounds (and warning beeps?).

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Yeah, but are those 3g when the plane is at 5g eg.? In that case extra alpha allows for 8g, while the regular FCS/alpha limit would allow only 5, or is it extra 3g, when the plane is on 9g, already?

At 12g, the plane should rip its wings (in game mechanic terms) after a few seconds.

And what about the pilot at 12g?
Flying medicine may have advanced, but the human is still a human…

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3g extra above 9g . (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKjO9wQLTBw&t=850s) the SAAB test pilot mentions it as a safety feature where it “will generate 3g’s extra so that will generate 12g’s”.

well sure, but it is still also a game, it’s still supposed to be fun and not introduce to many real word functions/problems to the point of taking away fun.

True, i suppose that depends on the pilot. there are IRL pilots that can take 9g sustained without being fazed much (although extremely rare). Like this dude: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoNqj2yl-Lk) doing 9g for 30 seconds, only straining and doing g-breaths every once in a while as well as answering in an almost normal way. But most pilots would likely faint after 3-5 seconds at anything above 10g.
But then again, same as above, it’s still a game and is supposed to be fun :)