The only flags that could be shown on statcards for non-state militaries (which is what the government of mainland China feels the Taiwanese military is) before this in game were the flags of their respective armed forces. But in this new feature it was stated quite clearly, despite any statcard precedents, this time that there are only going to be official national flags. So armed forces flags can’t be used. But the mainland Chinese government position, supported by the UN, is there is only one national flag of China. So the Taiwanese flag can’t be used either. Hell of a catch, that Catch-22.
Similarly, the position of the current Vietnamese government even today is that South Vietnam was an illegal secessionist regime. Lots of countries, as well as the UN, didn’t recognize South Vietnam at the time either. They even fought a war about it, you may have heard of it, that settled the issue rather decisively. So there almost certainly won’t be a South Vietnam national flag either. The only difference between the two situations is the first one hasn’t faced the full verdict of history yet.
This isn’t about the time it takes to make a new gif. Come on.
Its the equivalent of saying Holland instead of Netherlands. Sure it might be incorrect but everyone knows what your talking about and it should not discredit their ideas.
Except this is the same flag used for the 1928-1949 China (pre People’s Republic of China) and was internationally recognised. Nevermind the fact that the earliest Chinese vehicles in game all used the Army Flag, and should be replaced with the National Flag. The Taiwanese / ROC flag is the same as the 1928-1949 Chinese flag, so even then it should be added to the game. Nevermind the fact that the Taiwan is still in game as the “Republic of China”, and on the Wiki shares a Collection Folder with the 1928-1949 China.
Or even that 1949-1971 Taiwan was also recognised by the UN, up until the 1971 UN Resolution. Vehicles from Taiwan between the years 1949 and 1971 are in game, along with vehicles from the 1912-1949 Republic of China- but more specifically between the years of 1928-1949 where the same flag as 1949 to Present Day Taiwan has been used. So the Taiwanese / ROC flag can be used. This is the same consideration given to the Third Reich, East and Western Germany and Kingdom of Italy in game. So, hardly a catch.
The South Vietnamese vehicle seen in game was introduced in 1963. Around that time, South Vietnam was recognised by atleast 80 countries. I am not saying that South Vietnam was a great country that deserves it, but it was pretty well recognised at the time. Of course it is a bit more questionable as it never reached full international recognition, I will not deny that.
Also a problem is that there is no clear line on what is a National Flag and what is not, especially when the definition of a Nation/Country in of itself is questionable. South Vietnam was definitely a Nation, as was North Vietnam prior to full recognition in 1973.
Issue comes down to what is meant by a “Nation”.
Oxford English Dictionary; "a country considered as a group of people with the same language, culture and history, who live in a particular area under one government"
Says a country there, so what is a country?
Oxford English Dictionary; "a nation with its own government, occupying a particular territory. "
So Taiwan and South Vietnam are both countries, just not internationally recognised or officially recognised by the UN. Meaning they are both nations, meaning that their flags are National Flags. I think its safe to say that Kosovo is a Nation despite not having full UN Recognition or being a UN Member, so their flag is a national flag.
Just to make it clear, my view on this is that Gaijin really needs to define what they mean by National Flag. They never outright said it has to be a UN member, even if that is the most logical explanation.
Either way, that’s off topic. Its also a weird thing for me to define and be objective when it to me is ambiguous. Likely, yes it should be UN-recognised or part of the UN, but that hasn’t been clarified at all, so there is some argument there.
The Republic of China from 1912-1949 was internationally recognised and used this flag from 1928-1949;
This is the same flag that the Republic of China (1949-1971 (for simplicity, Taiwan)) used from 1949-1971, and was a UN Member State. They were replaced by the People’s Republic of China, but still were a member nonetheless. If East and West Germany, also ex-UN members, can be in this system, why can’t the Republic of China (49-71) that has its vehicles represented in game?
I’m not trying to do anything, honestly.
I am talking about three different timelines. 1912/1928-1949, 1949-1971 and 1971-2025.
1928-1949 ROC was recognised by the world.
So was 1949-1971 ROC.
1971-2025 was not.
All of them are called ROC and all of them used the same flag.
I’m not saying that what is recognised as the Chinese Province of Taiwan should be added. I am saying that prior to its existence as a province, it was a fully fledged recognised nation, and part of the United Nations.
I’m fairly sure the National versions of these flags will be coming back within the next few days, as it is a WiP system. On the Dev at least my “China” still has the RoC battleflag given I selected it prior to the recent change
Both of you stop it with the “well [blank] nationality goes”. It only leads to political arguments or other such things not appropriate for the discussion.
I know this topic is a very slippery slope topic in general, but there are ways to actually civily discuss this without instantly turning to politics. (ie, using my personal view as a player on this as an example: “I believe the ROC flag should stay, as it is the flag under which the vehicle crews viewed the vehicles as operating under.”)
I think Gaijin should use region-block functionality, so if ROC flag is unacceptable for China, just block it there, but make it available in other regions.
Secondly regarding flags, I think main nations and their subtrees flags shouldn’t be available for other nations, for example Germany shouldn’t have an access to options like: Kingdom of Italy, Hungary, South Africa and probably Romania (not named as subtree, but said to be placed in the Italian TT).
This entire discourse is likely born out of a misunderstanding, Gaijin removed the battle flags to, Although indirectly said, implement ‘National’ alternatives. I wouldn’t be surprised if we see replacements (Proper Flags) either today or tomorrow. I know a similar outcry was happening with the British AH64E, with it not being in the files. This caused many folks to get quite upset, despite Smin saying (in direct reference to this helicopter) that not everything was ready, and to be patient, however those who were upset just continued to be irregardless of the positive affirmation of its addition, until eventually calming down. I feel the same situation is occuring again here, especially with many sides of the Playerbase being at odds with one-another.
