And I expected you to use stats. To “prove” something. The big issue with that bucko you weren’t in those battles. So you do not know. Statistics do not tell you how people experienced something, or what they saw, it is nothing but constantly changing numbers on real or digital paper.
And I expected you to use stats.
You’re using anecdotal evidence of course I’ll check what you base your opinion on.
I have used MG151 a lot more than you and I’ll tell you they don’t one shot reliably at all.
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Cool and I don’t care, you want to focus on statistics, I don’t. Stats don’t prove anything about whether someone can perform or not.
So let me add more context.
When I used the MG-151 I found them as fine weapons. Simple as is. I don’t personally think they were sub-par to Japanese Type-99’s Type-I and II’s. Nor Russian 20mm’s. To me personally, they were fine. Do also consider one of the Ki-61’s has the MG-151’s.
So from my experience, they’re fine. When I started “One Shotted” I had several accounts of it.
I wasn’t implying which is what you assumed I always one-shotted. So take your head out of the books and use your eyes. Perhaps also your noggin. But I have no say in this.
Nevertheless, if you want custom belts go make a suggestion, not an essay-grade post that is just a nothing burger.
Cool and I don’t care, you want to focus on statistics, I don’t.
Good way to tell you don’t care about actual performance just your (very limited) experience with some aircraft.
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You want custom belts. Go make a suggestion. However, I already know you won’t cause many who use the discussion tag. Normally never do. It either consists of Echo Chambers, Remove CAS or college-grade essay posts. Which is often why Gaijin doesn’t listen to the community.
I don’t want to interfere in your exchange, but i fly daily whilst using all 3 mentioned 20mm cannons (the USSR 20mm just for 1 or 2 games a day recently) - and imho there are large differences between them.
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The MG 151 was the undisputed king of those 3, whilst the US AN/M2 & M3 20mm was imho better regarding ballistics / long range shots.
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The combination of new ballistics together with various iterations of real shatter (1.0, 2.0, 3.0) made the MG 151 with air-belts the worst regarding one-shot potential, even as they changed the fuse delay.
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The MG 151s are imho currently the worst of all 3 regarding ballistics and consistent damage output.
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The theoretical one tap potential depends where you hit you enemies - whilst all do their job fine with high angle deflection shots in turn fights - the damage output of the cannons depend imho which shell is actually hitting the enemy.
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The air belt of the MG 151 has 3 out of 5 HE/Minengeschoss rounds - and this is imho fine as imho accurate. Even if i use just universal for the Type 99 mod 2 (with 75% HE) and the damage output of the 20mm ShVaks depends strongly on your belt choice - the MG 151 tends to produce less damage output and has way inferior ballistics, making long range shots (>6-900 meters) much more difficult due to mortar-like ballistics.
Seeing the thread title both of you are rather wasting you time as there are way more suitable threads regarding 20mm/cannon damage output - like this one:
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Stats are objective benchmark of how player can practically apply knowledge about the game.
Only people with bad stats are against the idea as it proves that more often than not their understanding of game is lacking.
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I stopped using Statistics to see if someone is competent enough simply because in many cases, people with good stats ended up being a shoddy job. Needless to say, there were a couple who were competent and knew what they were doing which I admire. You are correct on it being objective and what I said was subjective. They performed fine when I used it but obviously, this is an opinion nonetheless this entire forum post was only made because MG-151’s are suffering a bit. As others have said in my case I guess I haven’t experienced or bothered to be more analytical.
Seeing the thread title both of you are rather wasting you time as there are way more suitable threads regarding 20mm/cannon damage output - like this one:
Unforntunately 20mm aren’t the only guns that lack damage. Many 7mm and 12.7mm also suffer from useless or suboptimal belts and should be at least usable.
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All 20mm hit like trucks at the moment. You can take off the entire wing or at least the wing tip with of a plane with a single 20mm HE hit.
But it’s true that most belts don’t make much sense. Neither from a historical nor a mission specific point of view.
In some instances it’s just silly that Gaijin doesn’t follow their own agenda.
Why do Soviet 20mm have a tracer belt but not their 23mm?
Why do Soviet and Japaense 20mm not have an air target belt but Germany and Britain?
The British T/2x(SAP/HEI) air target belt is practically the same as the Soviet Default belt.
Germany doesn’t have a ground belt while Britain doesn’t have an armor target belt.
The Hispano AP was used for strafing ground and sea targets while SAPI was later used for air targets instead.
Just like Germany used API against planes while APHE was mostly for ground targets.
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All 20mm hit like trucks at the moment.
They seem very inconsistent at the moment. The Type 99s and Shvaks vary the most between oneshot and no damage and the MG151 lowest damage potential. AN/M2 do acceptable damage but that might be because of the 4x20mm packed together most of the time. From my current experience playing the Meteors with the 4x20mm the Hispano Air or Stealth belt hit by far the hardest out of all the mid tier cannons that aren’t the MK103/MK108.
In some instances it’s just silly that Gaijin doesn’t follow their own agenda.
Why do Soviet 20mm have a tracer belt but not their 23mm?
I wouldn’t mind this too much if they actually tried to make useful belts but the current one just seem weird and out of place.
The British T/2x(SAP/HEI) air target belt is practically the same as the Soviet Default belt.
The soviet one only has solid AP does it? Hispano SAPHE is by far the best aircraft round in the entire game. It does insane damage on the inside of the plane and they didn’t get nerfed hard with the realshatter update that’s why hispanos still worked while all other nations suffered last year.
Germany doesn’t have a ground belt while Britain doesn’t have an armor target belt.
Is there really a big difference in usage (in the game) except the name?
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Hispanos take 10 times as much to get the same results.
I have to correct myself on that one they seem a lot better now than they did a few months ago. Maybe that’s because 50% of the belt isn’t useless HE anymore.
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You wish.
Not sure in what kind of world you live but Hispano SAPI just performs like worse HE, dealing low non realShatter damage. They immediatly explode on impact.
Compared to 20mm Mineshell:
ShVAKS default belt is FI-T / API
So 50:50 HEI-T and API
Hispano air target belt is the same except that every fifth round is a tracer that hardly deals any damage, while the historical load-out was 1:1 SAPI and HEI, which you get with the Hispano Mk. V stealth belt.
Not really sure but logical speaking the armored target belt would have the most number of AP rounds while the ground targets would be a mix of explosive and AP rounds.
However there’s not really a big difference most of the time between a belt for ground and air targets, since you’d want both AP and HE rounds, preferable with incendiary effect.
For German cannons it generally just meant switching from shells with self-destruct mechanism for air targets, to rounds that wouldn’t self-destruct and therefore could hit the enemies on the ground from any range.
Not sure in what kind of world you live but Hispano SAPI just performs like worse HE, dealing low non realShatter damage. They immediatly explode on impact.
Try it ingame they’re great.
Hispano air target belt is the same except that every fifth round is a tracer that hardly deals any damage
Hispano solid shot (AP-T) do a lot of damage as well. A lot more than similar AP shells.
For German cannons it generally just meant switching from shells with self-destruct mechanism for air targets, to rounds that wouldn’t self-destruct and therefore could hit the enemies on the ground from any range.
Question is if it would change anything but for the chance it does the change is worth it.
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Are you for real?
I just showed you the damage in protection analysis.
How exactly should I try out the shell on it’s own when they only come mixed with HEI, which we know deals crazy damage, or AP-T?
Yeah one of the few 20mm AP rounds that can actually take out a pilot in one hit.
Still can’t compete with HEI that will just rip of the tail or wing of a plane, however.
It will work out itself, if Gaijin gives us custom belts.
British Hispanos also had AP rounds with and without tracers but right now you’re at the mercy of Gaijin and can only load AP-T.
Not to mention the historical aspect.
Not sure why Bf 109s and Spitfires from 1940 can have access to shells that only existed in 1943.
How exactly should I try out the shell on it’s own when they only come mixed with HEI, which we know deals crazy damage or AP-T?
Go into test drive and try the belt with 3/5 AP. It does similar damage to the SAPHE/HE belt. During realshatter that was the belt I used and it did enough damage to shred planes while other guns were nowhere near as good. SAPHE was the thing keeping the other belts usable for that time.
Still can’t compete with HEI that will just rip of the tail or wing of a plane, however.
Hispano HEI is just as bad as MG151 HEI but unfortunately there’s no way to 100% confirm anything because there are no pure HE belts.
British Hispanos also had AP rounds with and without tracers but right now you’re at the mercy of Gaijin and can only load AP-T.
Ground belt had AP and Air belt had APT.
Not sure why Bf 109s and Spitfires from 1940 can have access to shells that only existed in 1943.
If they were still around at 1943 why shouldn’t they get the new ammo? The IS-2 got the postwar ammo as well and it didn’t make it op. I get this would be problem if some tanks got ammo that would put the tank at a higher BR because of it but for planes the ammo loadout isn’t really a balance factor as long as it’s not about missiles or extreme cases like the 50mm Me262 or the 40mm Tempest.
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100% HE-F stealth belt time!
False. AP was simply changed to AP-T. They never existed seperately.
When did they change that? I remember there was a belt that had AP/AP/AP/HE/T.
Those were the “old” Hispano belts I was talking about. Nowadays they’re only on the very early models.
Unfortunately only the AN/M2 get to have fun.
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