If You die faster than enemy CAS can even appear, I don’t think You should talk about the problem or skill issue to begin with ;)
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Depends on the map and amount of Hacks on the enemy Team. CAS is only ever really a problem at high tier with helicopters and when your Team gets stomped. These are my observations from the matches where playability was given.
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Someone in WT told me that I even have a negative K/D on the BMP-2M, so what. It is all bias, Gaijin rigging and Player Hacks.
Of course, that is why there are people who manage to get good stats and have different opinion.
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And also why not copy over the idea of default planes from Combined Naval while we’re at it.
Can’t argue for “tank-only battles” if tank-only players effectively no longer exist in the first place.
Every user would have default planes added into their lineup in the match, scaled appropriately to the BR, with default ordinance loadouts that are intentionally non-optimized, but are decent enough. Even if they queue with no aircraft in their deck.
I would do the same with SPAAGs and SAMs, again with preset belt counts that cannot be adjusted, mainly HE but some AP.
These default units would intentionally be free to repair to encourage their use.
Naval system works because of naval units having AI AA to deal with planes.
We talked already about it in this forum and on old one MH4UAstragon, You have said multiple times that You don’t want any change that would really benefit ground players.
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Including you…
If your going to complain about ppl in planes in GRB, don’t be part of the group 🤦🏽
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If one wants to talk about something, he should have some experience in it ;)
Exactly.
I do think the name of the mode (same with Naval modes) should have been changed many years ago.
The game does its players a major disservice by labeling a mode to look like one thing when it really isn’t.
It does its players another disservice by even allowing people to enter said mode without all the necessary tools to defend themselves properly.
It sets up newbies who were expecting “just tank battles” to rage-quit after being bombed/rocketed/strafed/missiled one too many times, who then proceed to shoot their mouths off here and on other platforms. All the raging on the topic quickly loses any shred of logical discourse, devolving into infantile stat-shaming.
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I don’t get why You try to portray people wanting to play just tanks as newbies MH4UAstragon
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I am not referring to you specifically. I am referring to quite literally new players who see the advertising for the tanks, go make new accounts, go play matches in said tanks, then then despite the name of the mode being “Ground Battles,” then suddenly planes show up and ruin said new players’ day.
Said rage-quitting new players then proceed in many cases to jump on the forums or other platforms and add more fuel to the fire of the constantly-derailed CAS discussions.
Giving all users counters ready to use in their decks, inspired by what Naval already does quite successfully, would help address that problem. Thus we all would see far less rant threads on the topic of CAS, and maybe, just maybe, some logical discussion on what is actually wrong with how CAS is implemented can take place without being derailed by cries for TO mode.
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The best idea would be to give people who just want to play tanks, their own mode like air have.
With that, we could be working on proper improvments to combined gameplay without the need to care about pure tankers as gaijin have to at the moment.
Naval vechicles have AI AA, if tanks had that, we could compare them.
But all people know Your (MH4UAstragon) point on tankers and why You don’t want to have any improvments for them ;)
Spoiler
" You claim I have such “moral high ground,” but the truth is that tank-only filth threw the first punch whether they intended to or not, killing off what I was enjoying when at the time I was not even playing tanks at all. And not only did they throw a punch once, but they kept doing more. And more. And more. And more still.
It was observing their seeming inability to “be happy with what they have” which told me their very existence and ability to whine with any legitimacy is a threat to the game. Nothing will change my mind in that regard. Because no matter how many CAS nerfs happen, such trash will keep whining for more. Until the day comes that they get boxed in and made to change or leave."
That is why there is no point in trusting You that, You want a real change that will improve things for people wanting to play the ground part.
7 Likes
You and I will have to agree to disagree.
Also, since you have been constantly suggesting implementing TO as a “trigger queue,” there is one thing I am genuinely curious about.
Suppose it was implemented, and proved to be as unpopular as the Community Managers, Devs, and many users here claim it would be. Would you and others like you then finally stop asking for such a game mode now that you would be given undeniable proof that it isn’t as popular as you think it is? Would you finally give up and stop?
Or would you and others like you only be emboldened and proceed to ask for a different implementation of it because the trigger queue was unpopular, and thus be an even bigger nuisance to the forums and elsewhere?
I personally do not think you and others like you would truly ever stop, hence why I do not support your idea of a trigger queue, much less a fully separated mode with a separate queue.
If such a trigger queue mode was ever implemented, and it proved successful, I am prepared to eat my words I said about it before.
If it was really tried and people would not want it, then why bother asking for it? Nothing hard to understand.
Why not? The same mode just without air units that You don’t have to play so it doesn’t even affect You. So what is so wrong about it? I can’t get any idea why be against it unless You know that it will affect the current mode because people will fled to the TO.
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Thank you for concisely answering the question.
There are several reasons, (outside of the decaying remnants of my old grudge). TL;DR - I’m concerned about the knock-on effects adding any variation of the mode would have on the community and thereby the rest of the game.
Spoiler
Firstly, both combined and TO games would use the same maps. Without the TO mode having some newfound method of dislodging people from power positions (which is sadly the role CAS is forced into), this could lead to TO match statistics resulting in map alterations for all modes despite the changes being only “needed” in one. Effectively the same issue why I got so angry years ago when I was much more immature - punishing all modes for a problem in one portion of one mode. Adding a replacement mechanic such as the “Doom Artillery” from the Battle Royale events could prevent such an issue from arising. Experienced players like you and I know how to dislodge someone from a power position without the help of CAS, but the average player is far dumber, would usually fail to do so without lots of supporting fire from teammates, and then complain here about it.
Second, it would concentrate the problems of CAS’s implementation in the remaining mixed mode (at least if selecting “yes” for the trigger queue caused TO players to never see mixed matches) and thus cause major uproars, forcing the snail’s hand. In the past whenever the snail’s hand was forced, the result was usually some boneheaded nerf that caused more problems than it fixed, or a small “victory” that was later rendered irrelevant (the Parts & FPE uproar initially being successful, only then to see everyone get HEATFS stock in high tiers being the main example). If selecting “yes” to the trigger queue resulted in such matches still only occasionally, this would not be an issue. There is also some remote possibility of “mass exodus” causing the current CA mode to wither on the vine instead of get the actual help it needs.
Third, what about Battle Ratings? A machine could see its stats distorted by use in TO, provided such matches occurred regularly enough for people who selected “yes” to the trigger queue, and then see its BR altered in both TO and CA modes. For example, the T95 could see its BR raised due to use in TO where there are no planes to bomb it once it gets into a power position. Another case of punishing all game modes for the sake of one. The opposite example could be SPAAGs seeing BRs lowered further still. This could be a non-issue if TO proved not popular enough, or it could be addressed with yet another BR split between modes. Aforementioned “Doom Artillery” could also prevent this being an issue, as well.
Fourth and most importantly, this issue has been argued about for many years, denied more consistently than any other request by the devs, and keeps being shot down even today. If the devs suddenly changed their tune, thereby caving to the complaining, that would set a very dangerous precedent of “if they say no, keep pestering until they say yes.” There is so much bad blood surrounding the issue that there isn’t really a way to implement such a mode and NOT cause an uproar at this point.
Fifth, it existing at all would embolden similarly extreme sects of the playerbase to then call for their “[Insert Vehicle Type]-Only Mode” or “Mode without [Insert Vehicle Type]” or “Mode without [Insert Nation].” A few examples would be (in no particular order): Fighter-Only Mode, Bomber/Attacker-Only Mode, WW2-Vehicle Only Mode, Naval-Only Mode, Coastal Boat-Only Mode, etc. etc. It could very easily spiral out of control in a Pandora’s Box scenario. If the devs claimed “this is a special case to put down a longstanding community debate we’re tired of,” it would look to everyone else like the tankers are getting special treatment and rightfully anger other portions of the game community.
Hence, I would rather fix what is actually wrong with CAS and the mechanics it interacts with before I would support adding such a split mode in any capacity. I do not believe such a split mode is truly necessary in any form.
My prior arguments about queue times could indeed be rendered irrelevant by making it a trigger queue. Map and BR adjustments could be rendered irrelevant by the inclusion of Battle Royale Doom Artillery and Separate BRs for CA and TO. But there is nothing that could possibly address points 5 & 6.
As I am maturing as a person, given I started playing this almost 9 years ago, while I may not ever like you, in some ways I can respect you for being so dedicated to your ideas, much as I am to my own. I cannot take back what I said on the old forum, nor in past posts here. I will never like supporters of the idea, as to me they are just plugging their ears ignoring the real problems. TO does not solve anything wrong with how CAS currently functions, it only allows certain people who refuse to adapt the ability to ignore it.
For example - most of the hate for CAS boils down to the kill camera and planes spawning in midair at high speeds. I wonder how much less frustration there would be if just those two features were removed from RB (and of course also Sim).
All the things You have mentioned were already discussed in different topics and it was proven that no real change is needed for ground units in TO mode.
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Then convince me with cold, hard logic to break down each and every one of the points I mentioned.
You can just go to any other topic regarding TO/Combined mode and read it there. We even had that conversations on old forum.
Every single one of those cases has deteriorated into a blithering mess of insults and stat-shaming. Trying to find any real logic in those would be damn near futile.
I’ll be waiting for you to try and convince me. Unlike when I was younger and much less mature, I am now at least open to being convinced. If you are so committed to your idea, then prove to me how “right” it is in an objective, insult-free, non-opinionated manner.