Crew Skills Need to Be Removed

Game Discussion General Discussion
313

As far as I know or have observed in the past, this is NOT the case. I have not read about a change either.
This is because crew skill is allocated by crew performance, not by ensemble performance.

Relative, yes. But not in absolutes. Look at the modifiers in AB. You can earn a lot more RP in Air RB than in Air Arcade.

I suggest you try this yourself. The 90 xp will not go 30/30/30 unless you earned 1000/1000/1000. They will be spread according to individual crew income.

That is another myth. Yes, under very special circumstances you will earn more. Namely, if you only spawn once and survive or revive the entire match or most of it. Otherwise, the much higher income of RB will offset the 3x advantage of AB. (Especially if you measure in xp per minute).

No, this isn’t about skill but about understanding Gaijins convoluted economics for RP reward within a match.

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314

Thats right, being aced doesnt give you much, even less at top tier. When you make a decisional mistake such as wrong positioning you get your ass kicked with or without aced crew.

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315

Like I said ,nothing is pay to win.Bushes are not pay to win and that is never more obvious than when you buy them.Premium time is not P2W,neither is crew skill,neither is buying a premium.I have all of them and I may get top spot in some games and zero in others.

Only thing that would be anywhere near pay to win would be paying for a downtier because nothing allows absolute seal clubbing on this game like dowtiering does and combine a down tier with a good player and you have your absolute runaway winner with three or four times the kill rate of the next player down.I have seen this in every after game stat check and replay after replay.Downtier is THE serious advantage to winning.

When I dominate a game it is generally because I was playing 5 BR to everybody else’s 4
.If I could pay for that I would be P2W.

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316

This mechanic existed in the past with new premiums in air and tank arcade. You got it for 20 matches. When I checked again recently, it didn’t work anymore. I hope they abandoned it.

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317

Although i share a similar view on things is have a deviating pov regarding p2w.

p2w is and was, technically seen, possible. It might differ from mode to mode, but you might agree that some vehicles (mostly premium) are far too low in BR due to this stupid "“on average results based BR setting” policy.

So if an experienced player buys on of those op vehicles his chances to win a match increase as the combination allows him to have a bigger impact than in a non-op vehicle, so he leverages his experience advantage with the undertiered op premium vehicle.

Best example is the the Wyvern. Until they deleted the af aaa on the forward airfield the top speed advantage combined with airspawn and good climb up to 4km made the plane almost impossible to catch - and flown as a fighter it was very common to see guys with 5-7 kills with one ammo load. So just by the sheer number of kills he could have a significant impact on the numbers game, giving his team better chances to win.

I also see f2p more holistic - so the game is designed to lure players into spending money. Players without investments are seen as useful to fill lobbies and to play targets for paying customers.

Imho your view might be correct if you refer to Ground RB in which things like reload rate etc. make a difference in a direct confrontation (like a shootout at O.K. Corral) with a similar vehicle without an aced crew.

But those factors are from my pov not really relevant for aerial warfare (at least for props) as fights between experienced players are mostly decided by positional advantages, used tactics and overall strategy.

In addition the “size of ur gun” or reload rate is not relevant (like some things irl, nice to have) as the main challenge is to get your guns on target (also like irl).

The OP referred to the topic in general - but from my pov the rookie player in an undertiered plane like an XP-50 will lose every fight vs an experienced player in a B7A2 even if he buys the ace qualification as he still lacks the experience to use the full potential of his plane and is not aware of the weaknesses of his plane - in other words he is not able to play around conceptual or technical disadvantages of his plane like overheating, low rip speed or insane compression at very high speed - and the more experienced opponent is able to benefit from his lack of experience.

Assuming the case that you meet an identical c+p plane (like P-51 C) on identical energy state the more experienced/skilled pilot will win, the differences between expert and ace crew are imho too small to compensate the experience gap.

This is for sure true if the technical gap included in the 1.0 BR difference is too large to close with experience. If your enemies can’t pen your tank they can be skilled like hell - if you meet them, they might have no chance.

But as said earlier - it is a matter of mode and BR. So if you run in a full uptier with a jet without flares you might be able to dodge a few missiles, but you can’t equalize speed advantages, too many dodges, you get slow and you are dead.

I personally like full uptiers as the conceptual advantages of my 2 more or less exclusively flown BR 4.0/3.7 planes actually increase, they both have very good turn performance in sustained turnfights, dive brakes and a very good/acceptable handling at higher speeds - and my enemies get faster and better armed, but less nimble.

And this in total opposition to full downtiers where planes have way better turn performance - so as i beat every average F8F pilot in my SM 92 in a full uptier, i have severe issues in full downtiers fighting stuff like a Yak-1B on equal energy states below 4 km…

You might want to check this squad on thunderskill. They focus on rank I and II planes in order to push their total kills, K/D and WR - they basically use the same planes, all known to be rather undertiered and able to fight in full uptiers, but absolutely op in full downtiers.

Have a good one!

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318

You can die and have it not be your fault easily due to crew skills.

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319

It’s a very large difference.

320

That’s the consequences of taking shortcuts. 🤷‍♂️

If a new player wants to purchase a high tier premium to speed up the grind, they should also expect to have to purchase some crew points, just like they did that premium, if they want an advanced crew to fly their advanced plane.

The alternative is just playing the game and progressing through the tech tree, while building your crew skills. The low tier planes will suffer much less with a new crew than a jet will.

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321

True, I’m mostly a GRB player but I suppose others have their fair share of grind to do as well, but I feel like this “singling out” of GRB should be neutralized, even if they start earning a bit less money.

We’re here to populate the matchmaker, at least people who buy nothing but a premium account two times per year.

I don’t want to cancel crew mechanic totally, but I’m of a belief it should be reworked heavily, so it provides less advantage between minimum and maximum.

Yeah it surely will vary from person to person, but as I said, I try to move out of lower tiers quickly since I don’t want to bully people that are oblivious to what’s happening around them, and are running around like headless chicken, I don’t find it fun at all. By the time you get to late-ish WW2 situation improves and “headless chicken” syndrome is far less observed.

I don’t have anything against people who enjoy lower tiers, but Gaijin is at fault for allowing that to happen, it’s crazy to see the disparity between skill levels in those tiers.

Have played loads of PvP games that are based on ELO, but nowhere games are nearly as crappy as in WT, so I have my doubts on that.

Yeah, I’ve heard some rank III premiums are disgustingly powerful, which seems like a perfect invitation for someone experienced to buy it and brutally seal club people who installed the game yesterday.

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322

In GRB you are bound to get into head-to-head engagements, no matter how experienced you are, maps are simply too small in order for you to get unnoticed in most cases. Reload rate is one of the better examples of crew skill advantage you could mention.
You and your foe could both see each other and fire at the same time, killing only the driver for example. At this moment, reload speed will most likely decide this engagement.

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323

Crew skills are not pay to win because they can be obtained for free.If a paying player has no right to exist on War Thunder then a veteran with a Ten year history has no right to be on here either.

Equality has no place on WT whether that be by design or design flaw.I could almost recommend one stops looking for it.

Raising crew skills by paying is simply an attempt to level the playing field between a newer player and a veteran as is any other aspect of paying.
As a side note some veterans have access to vehicles that newer players do not .A newbie will never catch them up the disparity is too great.They can be more intelligent and learn to be better certainly but it seems joining a squadron is the best way to close the skill gap not spending .Like taking guitar lessons from a professional.
Spend your money on a headset and join a squad.

No problem I am here to learn as much as anything else.My views change as I learn.I have had my view altered on here over the years by this forum.

I won’t quote the whole thing but you make a point of Air Battles and the Wythern and it’s value in Air Realistic which is fine as I only play ARB to grind CAS for GRB.I play GRB and my view of the Wythern is while it maybe a very useful acquisition It exists at it’s low BR simply to give a helping hand to the absolute turd that is UK Ground force in GRB at 3-6 BR.A plot hole filler if you like.It is by no means a game winner but makes playing UK around it’s 4.0 BR vaguely entertaining.
With Console controls most CAS is a plank to be honest.Wythern is fast plank and has to be used in certain way.I am not fixating on one point you made,just that most of my premium CAS is similar and I get no more kills in them than planes I can grind.It is the Grinding that Premiums are about as far as I can see and yes that is a massive difference with Premium.

My main point I was going to make and never made in relation the OP was that as an electrician my company are borrowed by my mates company to hardwire CAT6 Etc to Conferences,Award ceremonies,Ted Talks ,Exhibitions etc.He specialises in Comms/Displays and Internet.

The fact is that the time scales given by Gajin in terms of crew reaction are so tiny that your internet connection when online gaming will eradicate those millisecond savings at pretty much every step of the way.If your enemy is a mile closer to the internet tower or exchange than you are or you are a Brit playing an American on a US server you will never outdraw them and by some considerable margin.
The whole Crew skill system is a fake because of the inherent lag with online gaming and internet disparity across an international level.

This whole discussion is something of a moot point in actual fact.Anybody who has paid to update crew skill has been had really and I am not making suggestions it is intentional or not.

324

You don’t have to win EVERY time for something to be P2W, lol, just more often than otherwise. Even if you win 10% more often, each of those 10% of wins, was a (W)in that you (P)aid (2) get.

The fact is that the time scales given by Gajin in terms of crew reaction are so tiny that your internet connection when online gaming will eradicate those millisecond savings at pretty much every step of the way.If your enemy is a mile closer to the internet tower or exchange than you are or you are a Brit playing an American on a US server you will never outdraw them and by some considerable margin.

Why would the idiot be playing on a US server if there’s a European server and they’re in Europe? Gaijin already gave you tools to address that in that case, if you choose not to use them, it is just user error, not “The game being Born-British-2-Win”

Sadly Australians do actually get shafted though.

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325

Funny. I have been saying this for a long time, but it gets mostly ignored.

326

Why would you make an intentionally NON-apples to apples comparison? The only appropriate comparison to discuss crew skills being P2W or not is to take two pilots of EQUAL skill, not a rookie vs an ace, but two rookier or two aces, and one of them has a maxxed crew. They will absolutely win more often.

327

Agreed. Though to further qualify this, it must be pointed out that not all pvp games have identically sloped learning curves.

There are other factors as well, for example in WT, RB and SB have very different lineups and fixed nation team compositions. While this absolutely apply to both sides, it does introduce an element of asymmetry that isn’t really there in GRB.

I think a lot of it boils down to a combination of specific situations, and subjective intuitive affinity for this or that mode. For example, the Maus is arguably much easier to play in SB than RB. And while I find SB mentally a bit draining (and don’t play it often because of the long queue times) the slower, more thoughtful gameplay is much more suited to my temperament.

Still. You’re right, the distinction between the three “difficulties” in terms of rewards and perceived toughness is an archaic legacy system.

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328

Agreed. Though to further qualify this, it must be pointed out that not all pvp games have identically sloped learning curves.

It’s still equally difficult overall, because in a steeper learning curve, you spent more time losing earlier on in your simulator “career” and more time winning later on in your simulator career.

SB is harder than AB at first, then gets easier than AB later on, when you start to just sort of auto-win against newbies who are at the bottom of the learning curve.

The average switchover point occurs precisely at the point of average amount of time people ever spend in simulator, and the average of the “more difficult” and “less difficult” halves will always calculate out to perfectly cancel out, like all other advantages/disadvantages, overall.

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329

Once you get to the top, yes, definitely. But for practical purposes the bigger divide between an experienced player and a rookie has to be kept in mind. Like, if you were talking to someone new to SB in need of advice, you could bring it up.

But yes. Balance wise, same 50% golden rule.

330

Mhm - this example was chosen to show that a totally superior aircraft (speed, climb, roll, power to weight, centralized guns, higher rip speed) with an artificially increased ace crew, but with a rookie pilot in the cockpit has zero chance to kill an experienced pilot in a far inferior aircraft.

The only advantage the B7A2 has is far better sustained turn. Basically an XP-50 can dictate fight and might run forever as he can outrun and outclimb the B7A2 - but as soon he overcommits he will lose as I will win a turnfight. The only risk the B7A2 has that he got either pushed too low to dodge BnZ attacks or he gets 3rd partied. But the experience advantage of the B7A2 will ensure that he locates the fight on his side of the map in order to get more likely support in case needed, and he will separate the XP-50 from his team upfront.

Basically all newer pilots tend to turnfight if the have positional advantage - and if they try BnZ they extend to steep (and therefore too slow) so that you get them whilst extending. That is why you find an A6M5 at BR 5.0 and his major opponent in WW2, the F6F at BR 3.3.

You might have missed my comparison you were looking for:

So you asked for a fight of two equally skilled pilots flying the US TT (Rank II) and JP premium version of the P-51 C at rank III , both with BR 3.7.

With my rather limited experience of around 100 days on this and 200 days experience on an old inactive account exclusively playing Air RB i would renew my claim that the differences between expert and ace with a level 75 crew is too small to be decisive.

As experience is highly subjective even with the same number of flight hours i would bet my money on the more aggressive pilot - taking the initiative, putting pressure on your opponent whilst staying cool and going calculated risks are decisive in real fights and in wt.

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331

Pay to win is just that .You pay and you win.I pay I do not win.Simple.I just get through grind quicker.
I have good games I have bad a games.I need a couple to settle , hit a peak of greatness or good luck for a few then get tired, bored and careless.Nothing to do with cash.

I own more bushes than a garden center but the best thing I ever did was paint my tanks black with free decals because nobody spots them or thinks they are dead.That is quite amusing,I’ll be honest.
Nothing I can buy will make me win and I challenge you to prove me wrong.

The biggest help as I have said before is The tier system which is out of my control and as I said map knowledge and knowing where to go to get kills.

Jump on with a brand new account and see how well you do after years of playing with reserve tanks and zero crew skills.Have you not ever done that? I only have paid for items on one account.Nothing changes from the one to the other except the pace of the grind.The only gift Gajin might give you is Artillery accuracy or the occasional long distance kill one in every ten games or something but there is no way of proving that beyond suspicion.

Good experienced players do well in slow vehicles
They do well in tanks with a long reload ,They do well in new unmodified tanks they just acquired or on a new account or on a friends account.Same with aircraft.It’s about control set up, knowing how to dogfight and aircraft ability and that knowledge comes from this forum mostly.

Spending GE is for mugs and newbies not experts and winners.Best trick on land is to limit ammo carried ,a tip that costs nothing.Nothing will put space between a newbie and a veteran than simply doing that.

Simple lol ,nobody wants to play in the UK at two in the morning so you go to the US For a game where they are up.Did you not know that as a so called expert?

Lag and Ping are major issues on WT surely everybody is aware of that? But not you it seems? Server issues are a regular issue in all online gaming.So now you are a internet expert all of a sudden?

Seriously you just seem like you have to prove your point and win a silly argument by any means necessary and offer nothing of use to those who want to get better.
Can you list what you have spent money on in War Thunder? Do you own all the things you are saying are PTwin? I do own most of them and after 11 thousand games and every premium I could want I am far from the best player on the planet but according to you I must be because I pay to win.I wish looking back I had never spent a thing because it does nothing.

I am taking fact as I see it not a political opinion of rallying against the rich or whatever.
How many F2P players are top dogs on here?

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332

If you won 10% more often, then… yes… you did.

Nothing I can buy will make me win and I challenge you to prove me wrong.

Crew skills… they get me killed or not ALL THE TIME. I get shot 0.2 seconds before my reload was done while already perfectly aiming at their weak spot and holding down the fire button, at least every 2-3 games, where the maxxed out aced crew would have reloaded fast enough. Same for just barely being about to repair and pull back into cover but getting finished off. ALL THE TIME. It’s extremely obvious.

Jump on with a brand new account and see how well you do after years of playing with reserve tanks and zero crew skills.Have you not ever done that?

It’s not necessary. When the game already gives me a reload circle on the screen, and I know it is indeed 0.2 seconds away from winning the standoff, I already have perfect, controlled, objective data. I don’t need vague, barely-controlled haphazard data to supplement it.

Simple lol ,nobody wants to play in the UK at two in the morning so you go to the US For a game where they are up.Did you not know that as a so called expert?

You literally just contradicted this one sentence later:

Lag and Ping are major issues on WT surely everybody is aware of that?

Yes I am, which is why you don’t go to the US server. You just wait 30 more seconds if it’s less busy and not shoot yourself in the foot to have a miserable time not hitting anything because of ping.

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