You forgot the CM 52.
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Separate rank 5 and 6, move some tanks around, then move all rank6+ vehicle up by 1.0.
Anything 9.0 and below would be unable to face tanks 9.3+.
Anyone who plays to Rank 5-6 will immediately see how badly a split is needed.
However, we must all be cognizant of why all those HEAT and APDS-dispensing light tanks sit so low in the first place.
- They die very easily, often to overpressure.
- Both round types pen a lot of armor, but do little postpen damage. Even ammo detonation is not completely reliable when it really ought to be for all dry-stowage ammo.
- Maps and objectives disfavor using light tanks in sneaky rat-mobile ways, forcing head-on encounters with enemy armor most of the time.
- Despite the neutered postpen, all of them are seen as “critical” to prevent excessive spam of heavy tanks, which not all nations have in the 5.7+ BR range.
If we want all the HEAT/APDS-dispensing things to go up to where they belong, then HEAT and APDS must be massively buffed in their postpen. As should HESH as well.
We in many cases already have the solution nearly ready - all the 150mm+ derp artillery tank destroyers. Problem is these are still quite inconsistent against the heavy tank spam, where you can lob a giant high-velocity artillery shell at the turret side of a heavy tank and it does…nothing. The game does not model the physical force of the impact being capable of ripping turrets clean off of tanks. If such a mechanic gets added, then the artillery will easily rein in heavy tank spam, the light swarms become mostly redundant, and they no longer need to be left in a nerfed state to artificially trim them for 6.0+ BRs.
A side note should also be said about APCR - the postpen is still pretty bad even after the modest buffs it received a while back. The pen of said ammo is in most cases also very badly underperforming.
Meanwhile, the huge jump in capability between entry MBTs and their upgraded cousins with stabilizers, darts, and often also Thermals is a different story. Entry MBTs are far too good to be seeing the last heavy tanks, yet far too bad to be ever meeting their cousins with stabilizers, darts, and sometimes thermals.
We need several total separations in 7.7+ to give everyone enough real breathing room.
Entry MBTs with no stabilizers, no thermals, and no darts should only meet each other. The IS-7 belongs in this area.
MBTs with only stabilizers, no thermals, and no darts should only meet each other. The handful of cases with thermals but no stabilizers are fine here. The Object 279 belongs in this area. Darts render its armor basically null and void. The T-10M could belong here or in the former category, idk, leaning more towards here.
MBTs with stabilizers, darts, and sometimes also thermals should only meet each other. Every god-forsaken IFV should intentionally rot up this high. Yes, this means every BMP, every Bradley, every Marder, every Warrior, etc. etc.
Intentionally there should be a 1.3 BR gap between each of the proposed four groups so they only match with themselves.
Which is another reason to not have historical matchmaking.
Why? Because vehicles are placed at proper BRs? The mobility of the post-WWII tanks at WWII BRs is not enough to make them overpowered, nor is using HEATFS against armored targets unrealistic.
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Simply removing the prupose of one calss of tank. of a era for one nation that just came to game is not worth it. Its somthing israel players have to live with. 90% of the nations in WT can do it.
Useing 1980 HeatFS against armourd targets from 1930 is unreastic.
It is clear that you are against it no matter what is presentet to you.
For it works in Sim so lala, you dont have to use said tanks but you can. Its still terrible to use maus and jagdtiger and panter2 against M47 and T55 and what not. The mobility is ass, the armour is non existant. There is no point to even spawn in them expect for the meme.
I dont see your obsesion negating one class of tank for the sake of what is now? Israel?
You do undertand that you can have era specific BR´s?
have a whole 1939 to 1945 BR 1 to 6 braket and then have one for 1946 to 2XXX.
It helps immersion it helps balance it changes game play and styles for the eras.
Emphasising each eras mashines stregth and weakneses. From a game design perspective it is important.
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You just don’t get me.
For me historical accuracy is valuable in itself. I would rather have a historical setting, but where everything is at least playable, than an unhistorical setting where everything is perfectly balanced.
First of all, you can never reach perfect balance without making everything the same, it’s just not possible, it’s a utopia. Second of all, an environment that is entirely made up by someone is just boring for me. It doesn’t have any value, if it isn’t grounded in reality.
I’m sure there are a lot more people that think this way, but unfortunately you and most of the now casual War Thunder playerbase don’t.
Dude, you need a reality check.
Calling a Tiger 1 vs M-51 encounter realistic is delusional. Also the irony that M-51 is a Jewish tank fighting the third reich…
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I’ll make this easy for you. No.
I make it even more easy for you. Yes.
A couple reasons. For people wanting immersion, there are games out rn that do this way better and they need more players.
I also dont trust that people actually want what they say they want. I say this because it is always argued as “my heavy tank should fave weaker opponents” never “my light/medium tank should face stronger opponents”.
Im assuming +/-1.0br? Because russian 76 vs ferdi is funny af. But ay least i can play my maus and not have to worry about being killed.
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Most heavy tanks have no issues tanking shots from the majority of the enemies they fight. Making HEATFS tanks or mobile light tanks fight vehicles leagues better than them is worse than the current situation with heavy tanks.
The M47 at least isn’t super mobile either, and the armor on the Maus works even with 105mm APDS if you even slightly angle.
Immersion should not matter, this is a semi-casual game, not a hardcore sim. It does not do anything to balance things, it actually makes the game balance worse.
Play Gunner HEAT PC if you want pure historical accuracy, some of us like having fun in video games.
See, this is the problem. IT IS A VIDEO GAME. IT SHOULD BE BALANCED.
I said using HEATFS against a heavily armored target is not unrealistic.
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Its what they where intended to do.Its why the have Heat FS in teh first place. Also hence a era specific BR system.
its still faster," jUst aNgEL bro " hurr durrrrr
immersion is everthing hence we fight in said tanks and not spheres with rnd staats. It dose everthing to balance the game. It makes the balance better because every mashine has its purpose. Its what sperates WT from WoT, its why people come here. You want to play a game go and play WoT.
I would rather fight T-34-85s in a Puma, than T-50s you know. Puma is kind of insanely OP right now, same for M24 which is a 1944 light tank with a firepower of a 1942 medium tank. I know, because I have both of them and playing them is very fun and easy, but quickly gets boring.
Quite often I play historical lineups even though it means I will put myself at a disadvantage. For example when I play a Maus, I almost never take post-war tanks into my lineup, unless I’m fed up with the bs and want a safety net. Another example, sometimes I take T-34-85 for the Russian 6.7 lineup, instead of the T-44. However, whenever I do this, I’m the only one who does this, meaning that I’m at a bigger disadvantage than I would if that was just how BRs are set up.
Yes, +/-1.0 BR, also if the enemy is a whole 1 BR higher than you, you can meet it only in limited numbers, just like it is right now.
I was shocked when I found out that Ferdinand was made in 1943, but it makes sense, it uses the failed Tiger Porsche chassis after all. Ferdinand is a scary tank, but it still has flat 80mm side armor, the same as Tiger 1 and it’s much less agile. Tiger 2’s hull also has 80mms, but it’s slightly sloped, which makes a huge difference when you can barely pen. Tiger 1 is better suited to fight T-34-76s than these 2, but it has 60mm side armor behind the tracks, so still easier to kill than a Ferdinand, if you know where to shoot. A Panther has 40-50mm side armor, so it’s an easy kill for a T-34-76, considering how outclassed it is.
The idea was that Russians would get a double-edged sword, they get a good 4.3 lineup (KV-1C contributing to this very much), which can meet even things like Panzer 3 J1, but it can also meet Tiger 1s and Ferdinands. I wanted to highlight that Tigers and Ferdinands were scary tanks, but made sure the Russians will always have some TDs to counter them and that they would mostly be sucked up into 6.0 and mainly fight T-34-85s, IS-2s etc. I also made sure that there would be an incentive to play a T-34-76 that can meet Tigers and that there would be an incentive to play Russian 5.3 (to keep the population of counters to Tigers in a downtier up), giving them the ability to meet Panzer 4s in an IS-1. The only downside is that IS-1, KV-85 and T-34-57 would get used a lot, even though they were just transitional/rare vehicles produced in very limited numbers.
The Germans also kind of have a double-edged sword, the early Panzer 3s and 4s with short barrels are very good against things like BT-7s, T-28s etc., but I also wanted to highlight that they were in big trouble when they stumble upon a T-34 or a KV-1, which shocked the Germans. Although HEAT rounds on German short 75mm are quite powerful and can easily deal with them, but not one shot them.
Edit:
Maus has 185mm of side armor if I remember correctly, IS-3, IS-4 and T-44-100 all have around 230 mm of pen. A successful penetration is almost a guaranteed kill. Maus would be very tough to kill, but definitely not impossible, btw IS-3 and IS-4 are also hard to kill for a Maus, although less, but there will be more of them.
Because HEATFS is meant to take out heavy armor, and because the post-WWII tanks at WWII BRs that have HEATFS are not good enough to be moved higher.
Cool, so you’re not going to engage with the argument, back up why the M47 is so fast that it makes up for its zero armor, or why the Maus needs to be completely invulnerable.
Immersion is not everything, if it was it would require a squad of teammates to drive the tank. Historical matchmaking does nothing to balance the game, as there is inherent imbalances between “historically accurate” tank match ups.
Exactly, which is the current BR system without an era gap. Why make tons of vehicles useless for the sake of heavy tanks, which are on the whole fine?
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Yes just create the gap
Tons of vehciels are not usles they have there heat and fight in there specfic era against vehciels they where specifly designt to counter.
To engage in a arguemnt you need first to formulate one. I do it againf or you as you are not that fast. The M47 is still faster and saying “skill issue” dont get me startet.
See first comment.
Exactly just for the that simple reason.
An M36 with HEATFS is just as effective against T54s as it is T34s. It makes no difference.
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And the rest of the vehicle (everything except for the HEATFS round) means they will be useless. You can’t put a tank up in BR for a single aspect of a vehicle.
Is the M47 that much faster that it deserves to be higher than the Maus? Is it bad that the Maus should have to angle to survive side shots (or the lucky turret ring hit)?
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You actually want to move the M36B1, a 5.7 BR vehicle, up to 7.7-8.0???
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Yes. What actual difference would it make?
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Are you generaly that handycapt or do you do it on prupose? You do not read and understand what was writen in this thread and espacily by me. Dont make up your own storys.
- Yes the M47 is that much faster and has better weapons that it deservs to fight its counterparts.
- The Maus would in its era specific BR still to angel against its counterparts and do even more.
Witch ones? What vehicels? What tons of vehicels get usless in a era specific BR system?
You mean M4 shermans that would still face Pz4F2`s? Elaborate.
Reading your responses lead only to the conculsion you do not want to undertsand. You dont have to like it but you simply troll as hard as you can going with every comment you make in extreme.
“Warthunder has fallen, billions of tanks are usless” Thats you every comment you make.