Let’s not bring politics into this, shall we?
Its called an analogy in English
Back on topic .two divisions tier 1 to 4 and 4 to top. No uptier after rank IV
Thats why i started playing more nations to see if i was right or wrong in my assumptions and for some i was surely wrong.But most of the times my assumptuons were right.Plus ive seen countless content creators play most of the vehicles you mentioned and theyre only better in reaction times from me and most players that know the game.Most of them use the same positions i do,flank the same way,think of simmilar strategies etc etc.I would even argue that most push vehicles to their limits purely for content and often die to situations i would easily survive due to playing more conservatively.I may not own all vehicles on all tech trees and i may not have played them but ive faced them pretty much all while also seen how they peform in a veteran players hand to understand their capabilities pretty well.
I played the leopard 1 when i decided to grind beyond 8.0 and it has a HEATFS shell.I remember facing multiple ww2 vehi les and ending up sweeping the floor.It was jockingly easy.Does every nation have a leo 1 in capabilites in 7.7 ? Most do yes.Not all HEATFS slingers are good but most nations have at least 1-2 at that br or lower that are good and i know that.
The m109 again from people ive seen using it is a 1 KO,unless gaijin decides to troll you,if you hit cupolas,the turret cheeks of 70-80%of tanks or the sides of a lot of tanks.Yes id still have to aim but we cant have it all.
I play patiently.Sometimes so much that even though i may rank up kills i start getting pinged or get called names in the chat.And i reply with “What you expect me to do in this ?” Because the moment you dont overcalcuate everything you die or get badly disabled by stuff THAT YOU CANT DO MUCH ABOUT! Im not supposed to fight T114S or M56s or str103s or chieftains.So the only playstyle is camping.When i play lowtier brs no matter the nation its so much more fun.I can move around flank kill and when i get killed i can almost always impove because its mostly my fault.Also in low tier all tank roles matter.You play the arl44 75mm properly ? Get ready to wnjoy having armor.Wanna play the AB43 ? Its time for speed ! Wanna play the panzer 3M (my favorite tank)? Youre the jack of all trades (same goes for P43 and CHINU2.The vehicles are all fighting their true equals plus the maps are the proper size for 3.0-4.0-5.0 brs and it feels amazing.Plus in that br CAS players are mediocare and avoidable.Can i please have that in higher brs ? With all that crap i certainly cannot.
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Shermans have stabilizers, .50 cals and quick reloading guns. Not to mention enough pen to punch right through the Tiger I from the front if unangled. A Comet or Pershing would struggle to get through the side of an IS-4M, they can only go through the lower strip at pretty flat angles, and do almost no post penetration damage in doing so. Not to mention the IS-4 has 2 .50 cals of his own, more than enough to track someone attempting to rush your side. One’s coaxial as well, so you cannot even disable it.
It quite literally cannot. The 122mm D shell can punch right through the mantlet and LFP at any useful combat ranges, and instantly overpressure the crew, resulting in a oneshot. There is nothing the T34 can do to prevent this. Meanwhile, the B shell (Which some people prefer to run for the angled pen) can go through the entirety of the hull frontally, and overpressure oneshot there.
Personal experience vs personal experience, cannot comment further.
“Hit a weakspot” and “Frontally immune to every cotemporary round” are not synonymous.
As another player who’s played for 7 years, I don’t think you have the experience to make that claim. Time since account creation is a meaningless metric. According to Thunderskill, I have almost twice your number of battles, and far more experience playing a variety of tanks compared to you. You primarily focus on the German line, as you’ve yet to break out of tier 3 in any other nation you’ve played. Even within the German line, you’ve avoided playing any of the vehicles you’ve railed against here, despite clearly having access to them. Are you so utterly certain of your conclusions, you aren’t willing to take the incredibly easy step of confirming them for yourself?
The difference in killing power between APHE and HEATFS is immensely more than you’re giving it credit for. I got so fed up with decent shots with HEAT not disabling tanks that I generally run APHE over HEATFS where possible, like on the American 90mm. I legitimately consider M82 shot, a somewhat decent 6.3 round (That’s now at 6.7 for reasons that escape me), preferable to HEATFS on a 7.3. I still carried HEATFS for tougher targets, but the ability to consistently kill with good shot placement was worth more than the ability to penetrate (But not always cripple) whatever I saw. In fact, the only tank I can think of where I main HEATFS over APHE is the PT-76, and that’s only because the APHE is unusably bad.
It’s still a skill issue. If not spotting targets, if not reacting to targets, then it’s positioning yourself in a vulnerable area where vehicles that can exploit their excellent hull down sillohettes are able to do so against you freely. Positions that allow them to get that excellent protection, while not being overextended, and allowing good fields of fire, are relatively rare per map and are therefore predictable.
You can learn where these sorts of tanks like to position themselves and plan your movements to avoid giving them an easy shot on you, if not avoid their fields of fire completely. Again, playing these vehicles yourself would go a long way to helping you learn how to counter these sorts of tanks, because you’d then have to learn where you’d put that tank in their shoes, and plan around it.
Yes you can. Start by checking the BR spread of the game you just entered. If it’s a downtier, congrats, you can feel confident in spawning your heavily armored tanks and enjoy their strengths to the fullest.
If it’s an uptier, take the M109, or the Bulldog, or the 4-5. Save the heavily armored stuff for late in the game, when players are in their weaker tanks, where you stand a much better chance of surviving a hit. If you indeed have to spawn them at all.
You cannot control the matchmaker, but you can control how you play in response.
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we should not pull down those countries player for the fun of you
Trim this down and put it as one of the hints that crop up, but displayed as every other hint until it has sunk in. And then pin that on every forum area as a sticky. Please. Now! Seriously!!
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I love looking at the stat cards of the most verbose, vehemently pro-era-segregation forum posters and finding they are German mains who spam 5.7-7.7 all day long and have no experience whatsoever with any of the tanks they complain about.
MysteryIndex556 plays almost exclusively 6.7-7.3 America and Germany and runs the T32 like it’s the only tank in the game. Destroyer500000 plays only Germany and about 25% of all realistic missions he’s ever played included the Maus and is just about the only vehicle with a noticeably positive K/D on the whole of his service record.
It’s not a mystery what’s motivating the complaints here. Advocates have a preferred heavy they like to flop their lovehandles around with and want everyone else to have less options to deal with it.
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What is all this IS4 bullshit and what does it have to do with cutting the game into two?
A while ago I had a match on Normandy where I narrowly missed a nuke (by like, 35 spawn points). It was a full uptier to 7.7. I was on the western side, and I spawned on the northern spawn. The very first kill I had in that match, which I think was also a first strike, was an M48. I peeked from the hill that’s in front of spawn and fired at 750 metres.
There was a second M48 I killed in that match, contesting the B cap at short range, but obviously that’s less relevant to the point.
At 7.7, you are just your gun, that is true… but it’s a damn fine gun. Even at a distance.
Now imagine the CAS it would face if it was 8.0.
There is really not one cold war era. For the purposes of HEAT, it’s really strong at countering armour, and is rapidly relegated to secondary usage the moment you hit composite armour.
I’m not saying it should be. I’m saying it is.
A vehicle’s BR is set by its performance. If you put it in an environment where it dies a lot more, its performance will suffer, and its BR will drop again. It’s a pretty simple concept.
I have said it a thousand times and I will say it a thousand more times, nobody wants to be a punching bag. If a vehicle is totally hopeless, nobody will play it just to gift the enemy team SP.
Not really, because of the composite armour thing. But I use it in my 7.7 lineup and it works well, so it could easily be that BR in my opinion. That said… I also use the Dicker Max well at 7.7… because a vehicle with no armour is usually pretty BR-agnostic. So long as the gun works, the vehicle works too.
The one issue the JPz 4-5 has is that the gun handling is really atrocious.
Yeah. And with the Sturer Emil you can also easily deal with heavies at and around its BR (and higher). That’s what TDs are for.
It is not. Well, some are and some not, because you’ve quoted a lot of stuff. BMPs and M-51s die very easily in one hit, in fact the BMP is way less trolly than say the aforementioned PT-76 against APHE. But a Jumbo 75 vs a Tiger II, balanced? Honestly right now some full downtiers to 5.7 feel basically unfair to play the Tiger II in.
Also, the Tiger II doesn’t see T-55s. At most you can see T-54s in a full uptier.
Because the combination of APS, composite armour and spall liners would nullify the threat of HE.
I’ll grant you the mobility, but the Paladins in game don’t have that good a gun handling. It’s okay, but a bit silly to compare it to the gun handling of an MBT with two plane stabiliser and laser rangefinder.
I am a pretty average player at best, and I only started in Feb 2022. Here is how I do in the Jagdtiger and Tiger II Sla:
Is it exceptional? No. Pretty average stats for a pretty average player. But if an average player can be net positive with these two vehicles, I would hardly call the vehicles useless or unable to play the objective…
You have played the Maus a lot and have better stats in it than mine, so you should know that BMPs are the reason why god gave you the 75mm coax. Especially since I downloaded a user sight made for the two guns, I’ve done some hilarious kills with that thing.
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It’s pretty much the definition of balance when it comes to an MMO.
In a perfect world, both teams would go into a match having a 50% chance to win. That means the vehicles they could spawn also should have a 50% chance to win.
When MMOs fail to balance like that, all the players flock to the stronger side, because nobody likes to be punched in the face. Until nobody plays the other stuff anymore.
Why would a company bother creating a game asset (a vehicle in this case) that is never going to be played? Or risk losing players and nuking BRs with full on civil war scenarios because everyone just plays one side? They’d be crazy to do that. Of course they balance things so that every vehicle is competitive, or try to.
The really good idea is why we haven’t gotten another season of World War.
That’s not, like, ancient history. It was Dec 2022.
Some people do that, sure. But, ironically, it’s a strawman to say that all replies have been strawmen - plenty of counterarguments were offered by me and others. You may disagree with them, but that’s a different matter.
They were also designed to do a bunch of things they can’t do in game. Like work with infantry. Fit rail gauges. Carry infantry (the PT-76 again). Do indirect fire.
When you pit them against one another in a simplified arena the way WT does, they perform in a way that is completely different from IRL… so their design comes into it in a very limited way.
Even just to stick with WW2 vehicles, I doubt any single Jagdtiger crew ever pushed the beast to 42km/h in combat conditions. I do it every time I play the thing. If you accept the premise of balancing by performance, you can’t be surprised that the performance in question is not realistic, because the premise isn’t realistic either. If it was, my Tiger IIs would be falling apart due to poor steel quality.
And as we all know, advertising is always truthful and never, ever misleading… :)
They also advertise combined arms, which don’t really exist in the game.
Also, if you want to see it from the commercial angle… splitting trees into “divisions” affects the grind in ways that are clearly against Gaijin’s business priorities. They want players to be frustrated and have an incentive to move along and slog towards top tier.
I enjoyed World War in Dec 2022. Nothing could frontally pen my Jagdtiger.
But maybe the ten-minute queue times and extremely lopsided matches were a sign that my enjoyment was coming at the expense of someone else’s, and as to a new season of it, we hear only crickets. I can’t imagine why.
If it was, this would be reflected in its performance, and it would go up in BR.
Yeah.
Pz.Gr.43 will kill it there thanks to the 800g of explosive. But Pz.Gr. 39/43 and APHEDS 12.8/8.8cm will usually only kill the driver.
I think you actually can even if you don’t play it yourself: just watch videos of people playing it and listen to comments from thoughtful players who do play them.
It’s not that hard to try and put yourself in other people’s shoes and try to imagine what their experience of the game is like.
And barreling them too.
Yes, although to be fair to his point, this is one area in which it’s not entirely the player’s fault. The German 6.7 lineup is very heavy-oriented, for example. I bring along and play the LeKPanzer even though I don’t really enjoy it, and since uptiers are more frequent than downtiers, if I just went in with the minmax mentality, I would end up playing the LeK a lot more than the Tiger II, even if the Tiger II is what I wanted to play that particular evening.
I chose to give myself the challenge to use the Tiger II in a full uptier and use it well instead, unless the map is one that really doesn’t suit it. And I’ve been having fun with that. The Tiger II Sla I feel, becomes “a good medium” at 7.7, if slow. The Jagdtiger’s gun can help deal with the 7.7 heavies that the KwK 43 struggles against.
But yeah. Just a minor note at the end of the day.
This is a pretty good example of what I meant. I also haven’t really played the German M48 because if I wanted to play Pattons, I’d grind out the US… and while I’ll try the Paladin eventually, it does feel a little too immersion breaking for my own personal enjoyment. Doesn’t mean I want to ruin it for other people, or that I don’t care for the perspective of people who play it.
Pretty much.
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The BR split is really something we need. I love playing the T29, but my problem is that I keep getting up tiered to 7.7-8.0. I can’t really do much about them, since while I can penetrate them easily, they out class me in almost every way. Plus, there are plenty of vehicles with ATGMs at that point, and my options against something like that is even more limited. The T29 was never designed to go up against ATGMs. Same with every other WW2 heavy tank. Tank doctrine changed a ton after WW2 with the advent of nuclear weapons and the start of the Cold War. Basically every WW2 era heavy tank became obsolete. So there should really be a split, since they are very different vehicles that was based around an entirely different battle doctrine.
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Bro just found out what uptiers feel like regardless of the tier
So how would this work with French tanks specifically designed and delivered in the last 1940s based on lessons learned of WWII that are now facing 1980s tanks… Where would they fall. The T44 and 54 were immediately at the close of WWII. Is the T44 a WWII tank or Cold War?
The underlying issue is that we have tanks that fall between. Those are the tanks most debated.
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I’ll pose the same question to you that I’ve posed to others a couple times now.
Why are you playing the T29 into a full uptier?
The American 6.7/7.0 lineup is full to bursting with better options for uptiers. You have the M46, M56, T92, M50, M41A1 and M109. These are all mobile vehicles with access to rounds that can deal with anything you’re likely to see. They are purpose built for working regardless of the tier.
Instead, you’re taking a tank that’s on some level reliant on it’s armor, and trying to force it to work at a tier where it’s armor cannot stand up against enemy fire. Then you’re complaining that it doesn’t work.
I get having a preference for a certain tank, or even a certain playstyle. But this is a (somewhat) balanced PVP game, you cannot have it all your way every time. Relegate your T29 to playing in downtiers primarily, and use the tools you are given to perform better in uptiers.
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I don’t have nor play the T29 but I often bring a premium into uptiers such as that simply to mitigate losses given that people generally perform significantly worse. So if I am going to inevitably score worse in an uptier, I might as well do it with an RP and SL bonus.
I agree that tier IV would be an ideal place for a division split.
OK so some line ups suffer but they are crummy half developed line ups any way and whose fault is it Gajin can’t fill them or make them work. They are empty without a divisional split.
I agree and with a split at rank IV the T29 would be top tier div 2 and safe from the game destroying up tier so many of us hate.
Why shouldn’t he play it ? It’s there to be played so why not?
Dont make game issues into player issues.
There does and so many are asking for it have been for a long time.
Accepting every issue with the game does not solve issues.
Cutting the game in half gives you no more issues than you currently have as you already have a bottom tier and top tier with nothing below or above.
With newer later and faster vehicles (filler) clash with the established doctrine/meta/canon whatever, the gap is getting more and more pronounce and the game in heavy tanks less and less enjoyable.
Is the forum here to try and make the game better or just proudly announce how you support every long-term fault with it?
You enjoyed it ? How dare you :)
So the Jadgtiger is so broken only an uptier can make it work? We have to face it at 5.7 in the up tier all the time so what difference would making it top tier in div 2 make?
So you might say that top tier Div only faces its own BR or lower but how is that different from top tier as it is presently.
If you only comeback is to say top tier does not work currently then that is a major issue and criticism of WT who may wish to defend that or acknowledge it true.
If we accept the game works at top tier then it would work with a separate cut off point for the WW2/Early Cold war era in the same way.
I fail to see how anybody with an interest in WW2 would be against a cutoff point, but I see as play that tier that the game unravels and the Heavies of the early era clash.
I hate the up tier with WW2 against 80s vehicle’s, yet I am willing to try and out flank a Tiger 2 in an M18 just as my ancestors would have done. I don’t think that is a crime and I don’t think it is unreasonable or illogical to demand that from a game, any game.
We still have CAS to bring balance as it was indeed to do and I suspect needed to do.
I’ve also enjoyed the five (out of my six) nukes that I’ve gotten with it… of which four were achieved in uptiers/full uptiers. The first two of which, even before the summer BR changes, when 6.7 - 7.7 was a hellscape of compression.
The difference between the two however is that the latter enjoyment is not to the detriment of other players and doesn’t require waiting for ten minutes only to spawn in a match with 15 German players vs 5 American players.
And because everyone wasn’t spawning in at the same time, you could set up in a power position and just farm whoever came in…
Not at all. It is fine at 6.7. But we’re not discussing its BR, we are discussing historical matchmaker.
Rather than rewrite everything I’ll just quote what I’ve said previously on the matter:
the problem is that the average player doesn’t want to play against the odds, or feel like they’re overcoming the challenge of facing a meta vehicle. The average player would like to be in the meta vehicle.
You can see this by looking at any competitive MMO… whenever there is one side that is clearly stronger than the other, people flock to it and don’t bother to play anything else. It’s what is creating so many problems for Enlisted on certain maps/campaigns, for example, and it’s also what nuked the last season of World War, when everyone wanted to play the German side for obvious reasons.
Nobody likes to get punched in the face.
As such, the method of balancing by performance is very sound, and doesn’t really need anything else. In a perfect world, every vehicle in WT would have exactly a 50% win rate, and while we obviously can’t achieve perfection, balance by performance can get us close to those numbers.
But…
When there are BR issues, it’s not because the chosen method (performance) is wrong. It’s because of implementation issues. For example there being too few BRs to allow you to spread out vehicles properly.
Top tier is a hellhole and we should not aspire to turn any other BRs into a mess that resembles that one tbh.
I do not, in fact, believe the game works at top tier at all, which is why I have no interest in playing it. It’s impossible to balance it correctly.
We have an entire category of premiums in the game that exist for the only purpose of being 1 BR below top tier and therefore give these guys cannon fodder to kill, because otherwise not enough people would play 1 BR below the top. You literally pay to get punched in the face with the promise that you’ll get faster to a point where you can punch someone else in the face.
I’m interested in WW2. I’m against a cutoff point because nations like Sweden could not really compete, because the unintended consequences on player behaviour would lead to a situation where 80% of a lobby wants to spawn in the same vehicle or nation and so you’re forced to have “civil war” matches all the time, and because balancing by performance is on the whole a lot cleaner.
Besides… I like detonating vehicles from the Cold War with good ol’ reliable :D grandpa’s still got it! I think the helicopter I nuked out of the sky with the Jagdtiger on Wallonia/large Ardennes once remains one of my favourite personal highlights of my time in the game.
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