I’ve been enjoying simulator battles for a long time and it’s sad it came to this…
Recently fighting on top tier - doing dogfight i been fighting against people who constantly J out because they cannot kill you yet you dominate them and when you fire a missile they J out so you don’t get a kill.
This been increasing issue and considering the reward system and the time spend (You get more rewards in RB than SB which is nonesense) it is unreasonable to keep play this mode.
If you want to kill SB, just remove them from the game, otherwise fix this problem and start care bit more for all of us (Simulator battle players)
Then there should be punishment for J out in air sim. Say 5 min blocking to spawn another plane would be good. This is really disrespectful play towards your opponent. Simply just because you lose doesn’t mean you should J out so the enemy doesn’t get a kill. This “fix” isn’t fix it’s just worse to play with…
People J-ing out of sim is most likely a new player to sim problem. I dont play simulator battles myself, but i have tried, and i can without a doubt state that the controls for sim are absolute garbage. Even slightly moving my mouse causes aircraft to have a seizure.
While J-ing out isnt the most sportsman like thing someone can do, especially in a dogfight, i honestly cant blane them for doing so. The monumental skill requirement as well as real life equipment requirement for sim is way too high. I wish the mouse control system from air rb was added to sim, but that will most likely never happen.
In real life pilots who lose fight often J-out to save live. Nobody complains about it. You should not complain about something like this, as simulator battles are supposed to simulate real life battles.
The reason people fly sim is specifically to get away from air RB control system. Sim controls give you precise and 1:1 correspondence controls over your aircraft. Whatever your plane does, it does because you told it to and not because the instructor decided it was a good idea.
Given you speak of seizures, I will presume you were either flying spitfires or modern jets.
In event of spitfires, the trick is that spitfire elevator is very sensitive to pitch up inputs. In real life, pulling the stick back 2 centimetres corresponds to 10% of the entire elevator’s travel which at 340 km/h is a 2 G turn. 2 centimeters of stick pull gives you 2Gs of turn!
Now, what happens if instead of a massive flight stick, you only have a tiny joystick that’s at most 2 handfuls long? That 2 centimetres of travel corresponds to 1.5 degrees of stick movement, which then translates to (in case of warthog flightstick) 4 MILIMETRES of input.
4 milimeter of movement gives you 2 Gs of turn, all because your stick is shorter. The solution? Non-linearity if using a flight stick.
If using a mouse joystick, only use ~30-40% of the available input space. See:
This is the limit of stable elevator input with the spitfire using mousejoystick. If you input more than that you will pull too much AoA and lose control. As a quick reference, the range-setting wheel of the gunsight can be used to avoid overpulling.
If Instead you speak of jet aircraft
In event of more modern jets, a lot of them are inherently unstable and will not settle but become more and more uncontrollable after inputs.
What happened to the nighthawk taking off beside us?
They pulled back and due to the inherent instability of the airframe, they immediately lost control and died.
How do we avoid this?
Stability augmentation!
I don’t have it bound as I fly props.
Find this button, bind it and before taking off set it to “Damping.”
Suddenly, all your challenges flying a jet become a thing of the past.
Anyway -
You don’t need expensive equipment to fly.
You don’t even need incredible skill to fly.
After all, I’m as average and mediocre as you can throw me and I’m able to fly and have plenty of fun.
The trick is to both understand how aircraft work (especially propeller planes due to unintuitive behaviour such as left-turning tendencies and gyroscopic precession) and to take your time to ask questions or research or experiment to figure out control inputs that work for you. I have given you my control setup (granted, I tweak and modify it fairly regularly as I hop between planes so it is certainly not universal or perfect), give it a try.
Oh, and willingness to go into test flight when you get a new plane and go have some fun doing aerobatics until it feels comfortable. I remain a staunch proponent of trying the “Falling leaf” maneuvre I linked in my control setup post as learning to do that maneuver gives you the tools to keep your plane flying in most extreme circumstances by building mental associations of “this much rudder for this stimulus.”
You absolutely do not need the game to fly your plane for you. To introduce that is to completely and utterly ruin people’s ability to enjoy flying their aircraft themselves as such would introduce incredibly slanted advantages in favour of RB controls.
Air simulator Battles works based off of a completely different economic system unlike anything else in Warthunder.
It is called the Useful Actions system.
What it means that starting with your spawn, the game begins a 15 minute countdown timer.
You receive zero direct reward for capturing air superiority points, you receive zero direct reward for killing enemies. You receive zero direct reward for bombing bases.
Absolutely anything you can think of gives you zero direct reward.
Instead, the game keeps track of score you earn within 15 minute time windows.
Depending on the score you earn (Community Bug Reporting System), and your aircraft’s economic modifiers you are then rewarded as such:
A single kill is worth 450 points and thus corresponds roughly to ~75% of rewards. For instance, if your aircraft has a 2020 SL/minute stat card, this means you will have been credited 23028 silver lions assuming you survive until the end of the 15 mintue reward cycle AND land.
If you fail to land, you only receive 80% of 75%, in other words 15 x 2020 x 0.8 x 0.75 = 18180.
In other words, ejecting or dying early robs you of 20% of your hard earned income.
In addition, going from 450 points from one kill to 900 points for two kills, our reward rises from 23028 (0.75) to 27270 (0.90).
Twice the effort, less than 20% increase in income.
The 2020 SL/minute corresponds to roughly the premium Mustang MK Ia’s economy. In this case, the 1 kill’s income is incredibly good and the repair costs are negligible.
There’s a very nasty consequence if you are paying attention.
You can earn a maximum of 0.92 x 2020 x 15, no more. No matter if you kill 10 people, 100 people, 1000 people. You will never earn more than 0.92 x 2020 x 15.
Why is this bad?
Allow me to present you:
F80C
Maximum reward: 19 734
Cost to spawn: 18094.
Your absolute maximum possible reward (which includes landing bonus! Without landing bonus, it’s worse) is BARELY enough to earn 1700 SL per spawn.
If you fail to RTB and land after 15 minutes after getting 2 kills and 1 crit, you’re losing money.
So.
Finally, with mutual understanding and familiarity, we can tackle the issue of people who J out.
When you die to another player, you are awarded 135 score. This 135 score roughly corresponds to little under 54% of your total reward near the end of 15 minutes spent alive. (if you die at 15:30 minutes, it’s worthless again. Yay useufl actions economy).
You have every incentive in the game to do your absolute best to save your aircraft, to nurse her back to the home airfield and land. Even if you fail, the fact that you have fought and been wounded (135 points for dying to another player), you are given some compensation for your effort.
Whereas, if you eject before sustaining any damage you do NOT receive this 135 point compensation, meaning you get ABSOLUTELY ZERO REWARD.
There is, therefore, ZERO incentive to just bail out without making a good faith best possible attempt at surviving and fighting for your life.
ZERO other than to upset and sabotage your fellow player.
Remember the 18094 spawn cost of the F80C?
Yeah.
You pay that UPFRONT.
Even if you don’t crash.
Even if you NEVER die.
You start with a NEGATIVE balance of 18K silver lions.
The ONLY and I mean ONLY reason to bail out of your plane while you have full control and no damage is to SABOTAGE your fellow player so that they cannot earn back their initial investment.
Why would you do this, you ask my good friend?
Zombing.
People go into sim and proceed to abuse the game mode with jet bombers to grind. Now, doing ground-strike missions is admirable as the way you win a Sim EC match is through tickets and as it turns out, NPC tanks and minibases provide the fastest possible ticket drain.
These people don’t do that.
These people take off, fly at full speed towards the enemy airfield to deal damage that does NOT affect the match, does NOT drain tickets and does NOT interfere with the enemy’s abiltiy to do the same to them. There’s who strategies to bomb in such a way as to avoid outright destroying modules to ensure smooth and continuous farming.
What happens when someone actually wants to play the PvPvE game mode? Someone who looks at their assigned objectives of “Protect our airfields and bases and NPC tanks and NPC bombers” and does just that?
That awful, terrible, sweaty and horrible person who seeks to play the game mode as intended has rudely interrupted the zomber’s precious farm.
So what does the zomber do in such an event?
They press “Leave Vehicle” as fast as their controller permits the moment they see another aircraft so much as flying towards them or hear a blip on their RWR.
Why? Because it denies the legitimate player the ability to earn rewards as an interceptor or air superiority aircraft. Because if everyone on their team does the same long enough, they will have made the lobby impossible to play.
And by doing so, the legitimate player is driven off and forced to find a new lobby if they wish to have fun.
Perhaps it would be wise to play the game mode you make such bold statements about such as
because in your words and statshark air vehicle usage statistics for air simulator,
Maybe take a glance at /r/warthundersim and see if you can still say the same.
Maybe flyout during a UTC+2 18:00 EC3/4/5 lobby and ask the regulars about zombers and their underhanded tactics.
These zombers, besides the absolute insanity of paying 18000 SL to spawn a plane before you even die, are the reason the Ju-288 and early jet brackets are so dead (on top of awful compression).
Your problem is you’re playing in premium tiers as well. Most people are just bombing bases, and if people are trying to fight them, they’ll crash and continue bombing or just leave the lobby.
There should be a kill credit mechanic along with an award like “Forced Crash” or something when someone ejects / crashes when they are acquired by your missile seeker.
If you don’t play sim, then how can you have an valid opinion on why sim players crash to deny kill?
It is most certainly not due the control setup. Even experienced players eject to deny kills to enemies who out-skill them. Then, there are the zombers who intentionally eject to spite anyone who dare interrupt their PvE game play.
But luckily, that is not the case for war thunder. There are players who perform very well with just a MnK or a controller. Go watch 64mustang on YT, he seems to exclusively play on MnK and he performs well with it.
Whole tone of your comment sounds like “sim is too difficult for me so I agree with unsportsmanlike behavior of anyone who gets out-skilled”.
Is it illegal to give an opinion on why, if i were in the shoes of a sim player? Didnt know that law.
Also, hindsight bias for that part. Sim is exponentially tougher than that of any other warthunder gamemode. For Arcade and Realistic, you can easily pick that up in a matter of hours. For sim, i would not be suprised if the average person takes weeks to even feel acclimated to sim. Even for war thunder. One person does not nullify expieriences for everyone and neither does my expierence respresent everyones. I could be wrong, yeah, but i really doubt it. I have tried playing sim, trust me! Like i have really tried! The controls are just so alien to me. Taking off and landing is a pain. Staying the air without a involuntarily barrel-roll for slightly moving your mouse is even worse. Yes, i know that guy that replied to me gave me a detailed essay on what to do to set up sim and i really do appreciate it, but regardless I dont think I will be playing sim again anytime soon.
Also when did i say that “yeah u should J out at any inconvenience you face”. Seriously? I just said I understood why people do it, especially those that are new to sim, i never endorsed it for christ sake. This whole condescending thing you got going on is not really needed, either.
It is not illegal to give your opinion, but that doesn’t make all your opinions are valid.
Finding sim hard just your experience, that doesn’t make it difficult for everyone. When I started sim, I got used to it in just 3-4 hours over a week. Most of that time was spent in control setup. Sim is harder than other game modes but it becomes just as easy when you spend more time in it.
Sorry if my comment sounded rude but “players eject because sim is difficult” is the dumbest thing I’ve heard in a while.
I specified that my opinion may not be 100% on the dot true and it isnt true for a lot of people. Some people, such as yourself, will have an easier time learning this stuff than others, while other people will have a much harder time. Yeah, sim, like all other things, becomes more easy to play over time, but if the time it takes to do that is painfull at best for me, i am disinclined to acquise the benefits of sim over air rb.
Yeah it sucks people eject when theyre salty something mildly inconvenient happens. I was not the lawyer for those people; i was not arguing for them, i was just trying to understand the mentality of the players who do.
Also the worst take ive heard so far in the forums recently has gotta be the fella who wants the AIM-9X on the hornet or something cause #AmericaSuffers (they dont lmao)
That AIM-9X on hornet was the dumbest thing I’ve heard in a while. When I see these kind of posts pop up, it’s mostly American mains crying around lol.
Play DCS then I guess, I enjoy it much more than WT sim anyway. If you have steam as well you can get it free with the Su-25T and buy any other packs you’d like.
Still counts to number of shot down aircraft towards the pilot so duh… that is my problem and that is what i complain about not getting a kill. I don’t care if they get hit by missile, crash in the ground or bail out cuz all i care is to score the kill !
I would do it as in RB where you get a cooldown for crashing or J-out. This woudnt just solve players J-out during a dogfight but also every event airfield bombing “ZOMBER”. I would also like rewarding as in RB but thats for a different topic.
My suggestion was intended with less/no abuse potential (feel free to point out if it can be abused in any way). However, kill credit for radar lock can be abused easily, make enemy (controlled account) to take off from opposite airfield, get a radar lock at stupid long distances, make it eject for a free kill with minimal risk.
It was wordlessly deleted without notification ( I just checked my pending posts and it’s gone and nowhere to be found).
Tl:dr idea:
1st ejection or crash is not penalized.
2nd ejection/crash within 30 minutes incurs a visible warning, resets timer.
3rd ejection/crash within the new 30 minute timer crew-locks you from respawning for 90 seconds.
4th ejection/crash after 30 minutes since you last respawned locks you out for 5 minutes
5th ejection/crash after respawning and within 30 minutes locks you out for 15 minutes.
The 30 minute time is always reset whenever you crash/eject and increments a counter.
Every 30 minutes of ACTIVE gameplay (you have to have taken off and flying), this counter is decremented.
The counter caps out at 5 crashes/ejections.
There were a bunch of caveats and new-player protection added to the suggestion (ejections/crashes within ~2-3 km diameter cylinder of infinite height around own airfield and 1 km diameter cylinder of infinite height around own aircraft carrier carry no penalty, nor does ejecting if you have suffered sufficient damage to qualify for “critical” damage’s definition or “severe” damage’s definition even if doing so wouldn’t credit a player a kill (i.e: you were hit by a.i bomber or SPAA or naval AA).
Furthermore, if you have suffered ANY damage from another player (and thus provide kill credit), you were free to eject
I’ve never got an explanation why Gaijin refused to even humour my idea and put it to public vote.
I had expected as such and had saved the suggestion as I had had reposted it on reddit.
